Caribbean island vs Monaco pro and cons for living

[marioIT]

where is that ?

fairmont hotel Monaco.
the crane right in the front window gives it that extra monegasque luxury feel...

I saw 1 bedroom apartments like 30-40 sqm

people have different needs I'd guess... I would go batshit crazy living in 30 square meters.
I'd prefer living on a yacht rather than that rat cage.

Everyone's needs are different.
I have a flow chart I made with worldly-wise friends that tries to answer this thread question, but once answered the essential things it quickly gets into sexual preferences

Can't beat the cheapness and freedom of a caribbean mansion in the right safe place, as @JohnnyDoe said.
I still prefer the Med and have too many interests in europe, so I think a villa in Lugano (CH) as a valid compromise.

You get swiss safety and cleanliness, low business taxes and crazy incentives, better weather and less OCD than the german part. And you can fly anywhere in the world from Milan MXP international airport or even private from the local one.
Monaco is just an old small town full of tourists for like 3 months. Then it's dead. Beaches are overrated. Parties and clubs too. To enjoy something half decent you have to go over the border in France(tax hell).
But those are my needs.
If one has nothing to do in europe... he must know that's easier to prepare against hurricanes than against EU governments/tax agencies...

 

[uranium]

Well St Barth is a little bit comparable no? Very safe, very small, a place for the ultra rich, french speaking, lots of luxury yachts. Just that Monaco didnt belong to Sweden for a 100 years, and St Barth has no formula one circuit.

Otherwise I agree with the rest!

Still island in carribean
It seems like good plan B in case you cannot get to Monaco then maybe something like St Barth or Cayman Islands

 

[Konstanz]

Monaco is much better location than Caribbean but it gets quite cold in winter
If you prefer 20+ year around I think Caribbean is better choice. Like St Barths.

fairmont hotel Monaco.
the crane right in the front window gives it that extra monegasque luxury feel...


people have different needs I'd guess... I would go batshit crazy living in 30 square meters.
I'd prefer living on a yacht rather than that rat cage.

Everyone's needs are different.
I have a flow chart I made with worldly-wise friends that tries to answer this thread question, but once answered the essential things it quickly gets into sexual preferences

Can't beat the cheapness and freedom of a caribbean mansion in the right safe place, as @JohnnyDoe said.
I still prefer the Med and have too many interests in europe, so I think a villa in Lugano (CH) as a valid compromise.

You get swiss safety and cleanliness, low business taxes and crazy incentives, better weather and less OCD than the german part. And you can fly anywhere in the world from Milan MXP international airport or even private from the local one.
Monaco is just an old small town full of tourists for like 3 months. Then it's dead. Beaches are overrated. Parties and clubs too. To enjoy something half decent you have to go over the border in France(tax hell).
But those are my needs.
If one has nothing to do in europe... he must know that's easier to prepare against hurricanes than against EU governments/tax agencies...

Real estate in CH will be also very very expensive.
You will have to pay taxes or have lump sum agreement. This means taxes at least 150k EUR/year
So in 10 years you will spend 1.5m on taxes.
I don't know. In Monaco you don't need to pay 150k/year to maintain residence. With 150k / year you can get very good rental in Monaco..

Milano Malpensa is 1.5h drive if no traffic jams. It's not close.
Monaco and Nice airport is just 25-30 minutes by car/train.
It will be cold in Lugano in winter. With snow.
There is no snow in Monaco. Minimum around +10C at night.

With lump sum program I am not expert, but besides you have to pay a lot each year there are limitations like you cannot work in CH. As I understand for lump sum program double tax treaties not always work.

Monaco is much more international place. Most of residents are not locals. So, as a foreigner you will feel better to live in such place

 

[sergeylim88]

@Konstanz can you send me a PM maybe?
Would like to ask you couple of questions.

 

[jafo]

Someday, this might be used to keep you in...

My luck is changing for the better every day

problem may be the 500K - 1M EUR you need to have in your pockets to stay there!

Believe it or not, you can do it backward...or at least that's what I did in the mid-90s, hence why I posted the first image. The local banks, lawyers, and consultants hate it, so as long as you don't spread this around you are good to go.

where is that ?

My business travels are taking me to Asia (85%) and Latin America (15%) for at least 11 months/year.

easier to prepare against hurricanes than against EU governments/tax agencies...

Exactly! Hence Monaco! You can't own property in any other country in Europe if you really want to be free. It's financial Russian Roulette.
Let's face it...if we were hellbent on robbing people, who would we rob?
(1) People who have enough additional income to afford an extra home where they do NOT live
(2) or our neighbors who are just as broke as us?

This is lost on +99.99% of people: When a tax agency targets a non-resident, they are creating jobs for their OWN residents* (e.g. lawyers & accountants) *AND* are guaranteed an INCOME of about 50% of everything the non-resident pays their residents* to defend himself against the tax authority! They know this! They discuss this! They plan for this! These are their targets! It's a honeypot! Every transaction generates income for the state.

 

[marioIT]

yeah sorry for derailing the thread with switzerland.
Monaco is better, period. I have very specific needs that are different from others here.
If you can get a villa in france and rent a flat in monaco without issues, then that's a sweet place to be.

 

[Joct]

Having grown up on an island and spent more time on other islands, don't underestimate the reduced spontaneity to go somewhere else. Takes a bit more planning. You can't just jump in a car and go. Well perhaps a boat to another island.

That said, 30 degrees and a beach is tough to beat. Monaco beats it for a while and once you have walked every street and gone in every escalator/lift not knowing where you will come out, it gets a tad repetitive.

 

[uranium]

Some people call Monaco jail for the rich.
Have you guys seen the view prisoners have in Monaco
Looks like 5 stars hotel to me lol

 

[Konstanz]

Everyone just started to stop speaking how UAE is good lol
Just year ago all over forum UAE was the top best residence destination!

 

[uranium]

Everyone just started to stop speaking how UAE is good lol
Just year ago all over forum UAE was the top best residence destination!

UAE was best why because tax free no accounting, easy process for visa and residency, 90% of residents are foreigners.
It was like the whole country built just for foreigns to come and live!
But now because of Grey list, UAE authorities are forced to introduce taxes to get off Grey list.
But I feel like stabbed in the back. Because they promised 50 years no tax for freezone companies and all of sudden flipped!
So I have no guarantee for my life, no free health care nothing. It is like prepaid balance, as soon your money ends, it is over and you go home.
Now you see every buddy panicked where to go next and we are all looking for a new solution similar to dubai
I'm sure that soon we going to see some new service provider offering full setup maybe Cayman islands enterprise city as I see very big potential there

 

[Radko]

I think it's absurd to pick Monaco over the Caribbean.

If you want to enjoy your life without having to spend ridiculous amount of money to have a cup of coffee , go to the Caribbean.

Monaco, Alcatraz for the Rich & Famous.

 

[jafo]

I think it's absurd to pick Monaco over the Caribbean.

If you want to enjoy your life without having to spend ridiculous amount of money to have a cup of coffee , go to the Caribbean.

Monaco, Alcatraz for the Rich & Famous.

I have a FATAL tale of caution for all of you...

One of my older brothers (not the oldest) thought exactly his way. He opted for one of the most advanced islands. One where the foreign policies are still dictated by the EU.
At 58 he abruptly got really sick. The local hospital was "underserved" (to say the least). The local physicians that treated him misdiagnosed him for months and kept prescribing paracetamol!
To add insult to injury, the physician would NOT sign to release my brother so an air ambulance can take him to Colombia (or even Miami) for top-notch medical treatment. My brother's situation was worsening.
"Someone" related to my brother got really angry and some armed thugs visited the doctor at night at his house. (This was discovered during the lawsuit's discovery process. It was the testimony of the doctor. We have NO idea if it has merits. But my brother was the chief purchasing director for a European army stationed on the island, so it could be true.)

My brother was discharged from the hospital the next morning and flown to Bogota, Colombia. The physicians in Colombia are top-notch! They were able to "save" my brother, but he had to start doing dialysis after he was on life-support for three weeks. After he had quase-recovered, he returned to the island. Now, getting dialysis on the island was a task worthy of Sisyphus. Every day the hospital and its staff had ANOTHER excuse, another delay. Eventually, my brother passed away on April 8th, 2010 leaving four young kids and a destitute wife behind.

The medical staff, including the doctors: Rather than admitting they have NO experience or talent for this level of medicine, they kept "faking it and prescribing Paracetamol".

His wife and kids sued the doctors and the hospital for malpractice. Good luck with that. It's been 13 years and the case has NOT even gotten to trial yet.

Fun fact (things that came out of depositions/discovery):

• The judges on the islands are all Europeans. No local judges. They all fly to Europe for medical treatment.
• The island physicians fly to Colombia or Miami for medical treatment.
• The local politicians fly to Colombia or Miami for medical treatment.
• etc etc

Ponder on that...

 

[JohnnyDoe]

I have a FATAL tale of caution for all of you...

One of my older brothers (not the oldest) thought exactly his way. He opted for one of the most advanced islands. One where the foreign policies are still dictated by the EU.
At 58 he abruptly got really sick. The local hospital was "underserved" (to say the least). The local physicians that treated him misdiagnosed him for months and kept prescribing paracetamol!
To add insult to injury, the physician would NOT sign to release my brother so an air ambulance can take him to Colombia (or even Miami) for top-notch medical treatment. My brother's situation was worsening.
"Someone" related to my brother got really angry and some armed thugs visited the doctor at night at his house. (This was discovered during the lawsuit's discovery process. It was the testimony of the doctor. We have NO idea if it has merits. But my brother was the chief purchasing director for a European army stationed on the island, so it could be true.)

My brother was discharged from the hospital the next morning and flown to Bogota, Colombia. The physicians in Colombia are top-notch! They were able to "save" my brother, but he had to start doing dialysis after he was on life-support for three weeks. After he had quase-recovered, he returned to the island. Now, getting dialysis on the island was a task worthy of Sisyphus. Every day the hospital and its staff had ANOTHER excuse, another delay. Eventually, my brother passed away on April 8th, 2010 leaving four young kids and a destitute wife behind.

The medical staff, including the doctors: Rather than admitting they have NO experience or talent for this level of medicine, they kept "faking it and prescribing Paracetamol".

His wife and kids sued the doctors and the hospital for malpractice. Good luck with that. It's been 13 years and the case has NOT even gotten to trial yet.

Fun fact (things that came out of depositions/discovery):

• The judges on the islands are all Europeans. No local judges. They all fly to Europe for medical treatment.
• The island physicians fly to Colombia or Miami for medical treatment.
• The local politicians fly to Colombia or Miami for medical treatment.
• etc etc

Ponder on that...

Sorry for your brother, but you can’t go to an island and expect top (or even decent) medical services. You need to be aware of that and be ready for air medvac if an emergency arises.

 

[uranium]

Sorry for your brother, but you can’t go to an island and expect top (or even decent) medical services. You need to be aware of that and be ready for air medvac if an emergency arises.

Health care should be number 1 priority when considering moving to another country
If it was Monaco, he could go to France and get treated
Sorry for your loss jafo

 

[jafo]

Sorry for your brother,

Thank you!

you can’t go to an island and expect top (or even decent) medical services. You need to be aware of that and be ready for air medvac if an emergency arises.

I agree with you 100%!
He was stubborn and he also didn't expect to get sick like that. It happens.

The preventive measure I had recommended was to retain a local island attorney, one from Colombia, and one from the US to send a registered, return-receipt requested legal letter to inform the medical professionals on the island to make them aware that he is ready to be evacuated to Miami or Colombia for better treatment without delay in case he ever got sick. It would have cost him only $1000 to avoid issues.

Health care should be number 1 priority when considering moving to another country
If it was Monaco, he could go to France and get treated
Sorry for your loss jafo

Thank you!

Hope others just take precautions. The medical staff gets desensitized to our personal plight. It's natural human behavior.

 

[Martin Everson]

One of my older brothers (not the oldest) thought exactly his way. He opted for one of the most advanced islands.

Which island?

 

[jafo]

Which island?

Aruba

 

[Martin Everson]

Aruba

Ok

 

[Praetorian]

Some people call Monaco jail for the rich.
Have you guys seen the view prisoners have in Monaco
Looks like 5 stars hotel to me lol

The cells are further in so the prisoners can't really see direcly from the window. This is to prevent potential escapes after one guy managed to escape the jail and made it to Nice without being caught. It's not exactly a 5 star hotel even though it's better than most jails out there. The issue is that there's so few inmates that socializing between inmates is kept to the bare minimum so if you're stuck there for months (Sentences in monaco rarely go past 6 months or else you're handed to your home country lol), you might go crazy. Netherlands, Norway, Sweden have 100x more luxurious jails in comparison lol.

I think it's absurd to pick Monaco over the Caribbean.

If you want to enjoy your life without having to spend ridiculous amount of money to have a cup of coffee , go to the Caribbean.

Monaco, Alcatraz for the Rich & Famous.

This, once you get past Monte Carlo, the casino, the nice cars the place gets boring as hell and you feel like you're getting ripped off everywhere you go. 15-20 euros for coffee, a croissant and some water in many places which makes zero sense other than the fact that a lot of the residents are millionaires. It's nice for a week then after that you just feel like you're burning cash in a furnace. If you want opulence and luxury even Dubai is more attractive in comparison.

The one reason i can understand is the proximity to Italy and France but even though, i have a hard time justifying residency in an expensive place just to spend 90% of my time outside of the principauté.

Those middle class folks who work at the government/public function jobs have their apartments provided by the state so they pay considerably lower rent, and even there a lot of them spend their free time in Nice.

The Caribbean come with their cons and you have to understand them before moving there, but overall it's a better deal than Monaco and you get a lot more genuine nature/better climate/etc.

 

[Konstanz]

The cells are further in so the prisoners can't really see direcly from the window. This is to prevent potential escapes after one guy managed to escape the jail and made it to Nice without being caught. It's not exactly a 5 star hotel even though it's better than most jails out there. The issue is that there's so few inmates that socializing between inmates is kept to the bare minimum so if you're stuck there for months (Sentences in monaco rarely go past 6 months or else you're handed to your home country lol), you might go crazy. Netherlands, Norway, Sweden have 100x more luxurious jails in comparison lol.



This, once you get past Monte Carlo, the casino, the nice cars the place gets boring as hell and you feel like you're getting ripped off everywhere you go. 15-20 euros for coffee, a croissant and some water in many places which makes zero sense other than the fact that a lot of the residents are millionaires. It's nice for a week then after that you just feel like you're burning cash in a furnace. If you want opulence and luxury even Dubai is more attractive in comparison.

The one reason i can understand is the proximity to Italy and France but even though, i have a hard time justifying residency in an expensive place just to spend 90% of my time outside of the principauté.

Those middle class folks who work at the government/public function jobs have their apartments provided by the state so they pay considerably lower rent, and even there a lot of them spend their free time in Nice.

The Caribbean come with their cons and you have to understand them before moving there, but overall it's a better deal than Monaco and you get a lot more genuine nature/better climate/etc.

About prices is myth.
You can get Capuccino in Monte Carlo for 2-3 EUR
Yes in Hotel de Paris and some luxury establishments can cost 15 EUR.
But the same in luxury Caribbean. Just look at prices in St Barth etc

You have Starbucks in Monaco even Mc Donalds.

About climate yes - in St Barth you have 20+ all year round in Monaco it can be cold in winter. Caribbean is full of poverty besides St Barth. The only island in Caribbean which can be compared to Monaco