Can't provide proof of origin?

K

Kadinger

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Dec 7, 2024
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#1
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I have a huge problem... I borrowed €10,000 from my grandfather in 2011 or 2012. There was also a contract and a bank transfer for this.
Unfortunately, banks in my country only keep account details for 10 years. And after my grandfather died last year, someone in my family embezzled all the documents.

I know exactly where this contract is with this person and I reported them to the police a long time ago, but nothing happened.

In short, I used the money to buy Bitcoin and computers with which I first farmed gold in an online game and later mined Bitcoin.
The company where I bought the systems (was extra money from my grandfather) has unfortunately also ceased to exist since 2020, the company was deleted from the register in that year.
Over the years, I have sold Bitcoin from time to time, but in 2014 my bank account was blocked on the same day I received a payment from an exchange, after which I only exchanged everything for cash.

In 2016, the police once investigated me for a large amount of cash, but this was immediately nipped in the bud, as I was able to explain everything through my grandfather at the time.

Now I would like to sell some BTC and put it into real estate and have no idea how to do that. They are tax-free (after 1 year of holding them here) and I have never not paid taxes.

I also can't prove anything based on the transaction history because I've played with other coins on non-kyc exchanges from time to time and switched back and forth over the cycles.
 
#3
But how much is it worth now? Since when are you holding the coins more?

The borrowing of 10k is most likely not relevant as the sum is negligible (less than you annual living costs). The question is more if you have documental if the buying and selling prices.
 
#4
I assume you are based in Germany.
There are several blockchain analytics firms that can assist in proving the legitimacy of your funds. For instance, Abilex .
The extent to which they can help depends on the information you have about your wallets and their ability to reconstruct a clear and legitimate trail for your funds.
I hope you didn't play with mixers and privacy coins as it will significantly decrease your chances on success
 
#5
Reactions: daniels27
#7
Right, Germany.

Unfortunately, I also played with xmr from time to time, and I still hold “dash” somewhat. At times I also sold everything for cash and bought it again later.

I also bought some of it later via bitcoin atms, with cash. However, I was very careful never to sell anything within the 1-year period.
Another disadvantage is that I never declared anything on my tax return (I only would have if I had to declare something taxable). Basically, I've never done that because I've never had a regular job...

At the time, I was just 18 and still a student, so I'm a bit worried about the basic origin of the funds. Back then, I also had a new BMW from my grandfather every year, but that's difficult to prove. For the last 10 years, I didn't even have a bank account anywhere in the world...

I would actually like to sell around 40-50 BTC in order to buy real estate whose rental income covers my regular expenses to avoid the thrill of price fluctuations and to be “hedged”.
 
#8
Yes, but the problem is that you would have to prove each buy-sale-cycle in order to be tax exempt on that profit. It probably will be very, very difficult to prove anything going that far back and with that many sales in between.

When you sold it for cash. Where have you put that money? German bank accounts?
 
#9
No, I haven't had a bank account for the last 10 years after I was terminated following a withdrawal from a stock exchange.

I always spent all my cash in cash or bought BTC again with cash.
 
#10
Its more as 10 BTC, for sure.
 
Reactions: Houdini
#11
Forget about trying to cash out 50 BTC and buy real estate if you can't prove where that money comes from.
For all THEY know or care, you are just some random scammer who got all his money illegally and deserves to get all his assets frozen, then it's up to you to prove where that money came from and how you obtained every single euro to your name... That's just how EU plays this game.

There are multiple ways to come out of this situation clean if you are willing to spend some money during the process and listen to the right people.
 
Reactions: Houdini
#12
I totally agree with you.

@Kadinger to cash out in euro 10+ BTC and buy property requires that you have SoF which can be generated in various ways. But to cash out and buy property just with some analytics is going to get your coins freezed with 99% accuracy.

You could do a test, move 1 or 2 BTC to a new ledger, trezor ect. get the analytics stuff and go cash out the money to your bank account, let's see how the bank respond.
 
Reactions: daniels27
#14
•••• your question : Now I would like to sell some BTC and put it into real estate and have no idea how to do that•••

1) In Bali, few real Estate Agencies accept BTC to purchase real estate, in accordanxe with the Notary.
2) as far I am not wrong : Turkey allow to buy real estae in BTC. It is a Governental approbation to do so.

Resale later the property and you may get in your hands a clear orgin of funds
 
#15
Turkey doesn’t allow purchases in btc.
Bali not sure but wouldn’t be my first place I want to invest that much…

Selling a car and buy btc and sell them multiple times with that source of funds wouldn’t work in the long term.
I would be able to liquidate around 100k in not btc related stuff but using this 100 times would bring me in trouble.

I contacted a local lawyer I know and he had solved problems like this many times. He made a plan and will pitch me that next week.
Citizenship of a small island country and bank account at hsbc and he has a company that wants to buy my btc.
 
#16
Depending the type of cases I don't always trust lawyers.
Your are young.
Lawyers do promises... Speak well... know all...drives you in confidence...
to get some of your money for their living...
.... Be precaucious, do not always trust them....

I bet you will find better trust and advices in the Mentor Group !
I bet you'll find there very knowledgable people.
(please forgive me "Admins" if I advert for you)

Ecuador : bitcoin is an official money.
Shouldn't be to complicate to buy with Btn and resale real estate.
Even if you assume a loss when resaling => you'll be clean and white withgood proof of origin of funds.
 
Reactions: OKboomer and vehzag
#17
ikan said:
Depending the type of cases I don't always trust lawyers.
Your are young.
Lawyers do promises... Speak well... know all...drives you in confidence...
to get some of your money for their living...
.... Be precaucious, do not always trust them....
Click to expand...
They mainly want your money while keeping their licence. Even if they are good, their advice cannot be better than how complete you tell them you situation. And you may miss more than you think.

Do you own research first.
 
Reactions: OKboomer and vehzag
#18
Turkey is full of OTC Trader. TRY for your real estate purchase is easy.
Please keep us updated how he justifies the banana island passport. Your passport is German. You don't need a banana island passport.
This lawyer seems to be after commission and not only your best.
daniels27 said:
They mainly want your money while keeping their licence. Even if they are good, their advice cannot be better than how complete you tell them you situation. And you may miss more than you think.

Do you own research first.
Click to expand...
What might he miss? The real origin of his funds?
 
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