Best Private Banking Options

[rowena]

Hello,
I am looking for new banking options since my business growing and I need to split my money to for better structure. I am living UAE and almost all international banks accessible via their representative offices in Dubai. I already contacted some of them and I want to share their minimum balance requirements.

UBS Wealth Management: $2M
BNP Paribas Wealth Management: $3M
Lombard Odier: €1M
Julius Baer: €1M

Some other options but not private banking/wealth management:

Saxo VIP: $1.25M
HSBC Jade: $1M
Citigold IPB: $0.25M

My main objective is to keep my assets safe. I want to work with a bank that has good credit ratings and considered as "too big to fail". I think UBS or BNP are the best choices but I am not sure.

 

[Martin Everson]

My main objective is to keep my assets safe.

Then don't keep your money in UAE.

I want to work with a bank that has good credit ratings and considered as "too big to fail". I think UBS or BNP are the best choices but I am not sure.

Well UBS was bailed out during previous financial crisis so I guess that fits your needs. They are good enough but don't use their UAE entity.

 

[Praetorian]

I had experiences at both UBS and BNP Paribas Wealth Management, both are fine if your assets are legitimate but like Martin said above, focus on their european entities if you want private banking. At this level they usually don't care about where you live. HSBC Hong Kong was fine for a while until their wires became a nightmare and they started openly discriminating against their western clientele seeing how much money they made from wealthy chinese clients.

 

[rowena]

Then don't keep your money in UAE.

I'm dividing my assets into different jurisdictions: USA, 2 EU countries and UAE. I don't think keeping money in the UAE is a problem but we already discussed this

Well UBS was bailed out during previous financial crisis so I guess that fits your needs. They are good enough but don't use their UAE entity.

Why do you not recommend the UAE entity? It is not a branch, they're acting as a representative office. They handle communication, paperwork with headquarters and of course assets will be held in Switzerland.

I had experiences at both UBS and BNP Paribas Wealth Management, both are fine if your assets are legitimate but like Martin said above, focus on their european entities if you want private banking. At this level they usually don't care about where you live. HSBC Hong Kong was fine for a while until their wires became a nightmare and they started openly discriminating against their western clientele seeing how much money they made from wealthy chinese clients.

Yes, assets are legitimate. I am also very positive about UBS and BNP. Both are finance giants with good credit ratings.

Why you're suggesting their European branches like Martin Everson? I don't understand the difference between dealing with their European branch or dealing with the representative office.

 

[CaptK]

If all goes to s**t the marketting/branches/representative offrice are the first to suffer. The HQ will always stay afloat because of the damage it would do to economy. The branches in other countries will be used as cannon fodder and then you are stuck with whatever deposit protection they have if any. Then they are sold and then you have all sorts of compliance issues regardless of the legitimacy of your funds.

I would recommend getting in contact with any of the Jersey, Gibraltar, Gurnsey and IOM banks. All very liquid and separate from the mainland UK offices but with all the protection. The Island banks liquidity is very good and ring fencend by law from the risky parts of the bank.

250K starting but your are safe baring an asteroid hitting the Island.

As much as I love the UAE keep as little as possible there. They are still an Arab state and make up rules as they go along.

USA is a big NO, too many reasons to list but simply they will f**k you the first chance they get. I have funds stuck in the USA for 3 years. Supplied all documents got all necessary clearances and sign offs. Done my 8233 twice and a lot of CPA and lawyer fees.
I didn't even put a foot wrong but they still are holding my funds. Just waiting for the funds to be sent back then I take them to the cleaners.

 

[rowena]

If all goes to s**t the marketting/branches/representative offrice are the first to suffer. The HQ will always stay afloat because of the damage it would do to economy. The branches in other countries will be used as cannon fodder and then you are stuck with whatever deposit protection they have if any. Then they are sold and then you have all sorts of compliance issues regardless of the legitimacy of your funds.

Representatives offices can close but it shouldn't affect anything especially the deposit protection. Your money, assets and everything held on HQ's jurisdiction it means you're under deposit protection of that jurisdiction. To be more specific if you open a bank account with the UBS Dubai branch that means your account is under the protection of Swiss deposit insurance(100K CHF).

USA is a big NO, too many reasons to list but simply they will f**k you the first chance they get. I have funds stuck in the USA for 3 years. Supplied all documents got all necessary clearances and sign offs. Done my 8233 twice and a lot of CPA and lawyer fees.
I didn't even put a foot wrong but they still are holding my funds. Just waiting for the funds to be sent back then I take them to the cleaners.

Honestly, this is a scary story but I have a low 7 figures USA account since 5 years and I did lots of deposits/withdrawals and never faced any problem other than standard KYC procedures. I always make transfers between my own accounts and I have a transparent legitimate business.

 

[CaptK]

Representatives offices can close but it shouldn't affect anything especially the deposit protection. Your money, assets and everything held on HQ's jurisdiction it means you're under deposit protection of that jurisdiction. To be more specific if you open a bank account with the UBS Dubai branch that means your account is under the protection of Swiss deposit insurance(100K CHF).



Honestly, this is a scary story but I have a low 7 figures USA account since 5 years and I did lots of deposits/withdrawals and never faced any problem other than standard KYC procedures. I always make transfers between my own accounts and I have a transparent legitimate business.

That's the most infuriating thing my Citi account I have never had a problem but BOA are arseholes.
After they promised me the world on my set up, totally transparent every stupid form from the 5's upto the 8's.

I will get it back they just wanted tax out of me and I am not liable for a penny.

 

[JustAnotherNomad]

I recently spoke to someone who told me Bank of America closed the account of one of his HNWI clients from Monaco. Nothing shady, he had his kids in school/college in the US, but they still didn’t want his money.

 

[CaptK]

BOA bunch of wankers

 

[NomadTrader]

Then don't keep your money in UAE.



Well UBS was bailed out during previous financial crisis so I guess that fits your needs. They are good enough but don't use their UAE entity.

Hi Martin,

Which offshore stock brokers do you recommend for over $1M in trading deposits?

Thanks,

 

[Martin Everson]

Hi Martin,

Which offshore stock brokers do you recommend for over $1M in trading deposits?

Depends what you define as offshore. But you can use either of the first two which are EU based and last is non-EU based.

BGL BNP Paribas if you want a good name but not cheap

Flatex if you want cheap trading. They just acquired Degiro also.

Butterfield Bank Bermuda or a branch of it. They are one of the biggest traditional non-EU offshore banking groups.

 

[wheelspin]

You talked about some big banks like UBS and BNP. What about tier 2 or tier 3 banks and independent private / wealth management banks?

Is it worth to go with larger banks and pay higher fees (sometimes ridiculous > 1.5% AUM) or better to go with smaller ones?

 

[rowena]

@wheelspin
Big banks(like UBS, BNP, HSBC, CITI) always safer because in case of fail will probably bailout by the government. They're also regulated more strictly than other banks.

I don't believe in wealth management unless you're going to invest $25m or more. It is better to invest passive index funds and enjoy low management fees. If you're going to invest less than $1M then you should go with a reputable broker like IB or Saxo.

 

[wheelspin]

@wheelspin
Big banks(like UBS, BNP, HSBC, CITI) always safer because in case of fail will probably bailout by the government. They're also regulated more strictly than other banks.

I don't believe in wealth management unless you're going to invest $25m or more. It is better to invest passive index funds and enjoy low management fees. If you're going to invest less than $1M then you should go with a reputable broker like IB or Saxo.

I totally agree with you. Most managed funds have lower performance as passive investments if you take all costs into consideration. I like ETFs and savvy picked stocks more.

What about their private banking services when you have >$ 15m? Is it worth it?

 

[rowena]

I totally agree with you. Most managed funds have lower performance as passive investments if you take all costs into consideration. I like ETFs and savvy picked stocks more.

What about their private banking services when you have >$ 15m? Is it worth it?

If you have 8 figures financial investments and don't want to deal and spend time to manage your money then worth it. I believe celebrities, football players etc.. have no idea about passive investing, etfs, bonds so they basically use wealth management services and don't waste their time.

 

[Davis123]

If all goes to s**t the marketting/branches/representative offrice are the first to suffer. The HQ will always stay afloat because of the damage it would do to economy. The branches in other countries will be used as cannon fodder and then you are stuck with whatever deposit protection they have if any. Then they are sold and then you have all sorts of compliance issues regardless of the legitimacy of your funds.

I would recommend getting in contact with any of the Jersey, Gibraltar, Gurnsey and IOM banks. All very liquid and separate from the mainland UK offices but with all the protection. The Island banks liquidity is very good and ring fencend by law from the risky parts of the bank.

250K starting but your are safe baring an asteroid hitting the Island.

As much as I love the UAE keep as little as possible there. They are still an Arab state and make up rules as they go along.

USA is a big NO, too many reasons to list but simply they will f**k you the first chance they get. I have funds stuck in the USA for 3 years. Supplied all documents got all necessary clearances and sign offs. Done my 8233 twice and a lot of CPA and lawyer fees.
I didn't even put a foot wrong but they still are holding my funds. Just waiting for the funds to be sent back then I take them to the cleaners.

Yes USA is a big No No for US citizens as well as others. I only keep a small amount there and I am a US citizen.

 

[wheelspin]

If you have 8 figures financial investments and don't want to deal and spend time to manage your money then worth it. I believe celebrities, football players etc.. have no idea about passive investing, etfs, bonds so they basically use wealth management services and don't waste their time.

What are your thoughts about an independent external wealth manager (firm) which can diversify among several banks? It helps to avoid cluster risks. Don't put all your eggs in one basket

Private bankers often tend to sell their products because they are supposed to. It often starts with risky funds, structured products where costs are hidden, and so on. Bankers may be in conflict of interests. Do they sell the best product on the market? No, they will sell exclusively their own products.

Does anyone know independent (reputable) external wealth managers in Switzerland? I found this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBAZCReLPQwAixHbH5p4GYQhttps://swiss-banking-lawyers.com/
I did some research. Sounds legit to me.

 

[rowena]

Too much diversification is meaningless unless you have $20-30M because the system already works on custodian accounts. To be more specific, if you have investments at Saxo Broker and in case of Saxo bankruptcy you will most probably not lose your assets because your assets held in different banks' custodian accounts(Citibank in this case). In my opinion, 2 stable financial institution is fine unless you have more than $20-30M.

I believe also external wealth managers are not different from than wealth management services of banks. They still charge hefty fees and if you really want to spend money on wealth management then it is better to deal with UBS instead of a third-party "professional" company in Switzerland.

In the continuing battle between active and passive management, passive won another year and celebrated a 10-year winning streak over actively-managed stock funds.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lcarre...-cap-funds-10-years-in-a-row/?sh=f5b2cc447b0b

 

[burden]

nd in case of Saxo bankruptcy you will most probably not lose your assets because your assets

you know your stuff, but honestly I don't believe Saxo bank nor Citibank will turn the belly upside down.

 

[no1d]

@rowena Which private bank did you went for? Same as you I'm looking to keep my assets in a safe place.

I'm discussing with VP Bank, they require only 1M CHF but I don't know much about them.

I've talked to LGT and they require 5M CHF invested.