Best place to create a company in EU?

[mud]

This is an interesting perspective and thank you for this. While France is not easy for anyone, local or foreign, I do think if you are local (or at least an EU national), you speak French etc. your experience would be different and your costs would be lower. The OP as far as I know is French, so less likely to have the obstacles you are facing - especially with regards to payroll solutions and the likes. That said it is cheaper and better to outsource to local specialized companies rather than hiring a local manager for these sorts of things. But I admit not all local companies will have English speaking staff and the ones that do, likely charge a premium.

Actually, it wasn't cheaper to outsource to local companies in our case as the French state subsidize the admin wages a lot. Having left those subsidized programs though we've since moved our admin to Africa & Asia where costs are a lot lower.

 

[thomasparra]

I am not surprised about your experience. I see France as a little Japan where things are harder for foreigners especially when you don't speak the language.

Your operations involve hiring and paying staff as well, which is generally cumbersome and expensive especially in France, even if you pay them minimum wage (but you still need to understand and get through the red tape that hiring someone involve - which again for a non French speaker is tough).

I will start the business in France and see where it goes - it is also a way to test the business and get my book of clients in France/Europe. I can move the operations overseas after a year or two if the business is successful and taxes are hard to avoid/optimize on.

 

[mud]

I am not surprised about your experience. I see France as a little Japan where things are harder for foreigners especially when you don't speak the language.

Your operations involve hiring and paying staff as well, which is generally cumbersome and expensive especially in France, even if you pay them minimum wage (but you still need to understand and get through the red tape that hiring someone involve - which again for a non French speaker is tough).

I will start the business in France and see where it goes - it is also a way to test the business and get my book of clients in France/Europe. I can move the operations overseas after a year or two if the business is successful and taxes are hard to avoid/optimize on.

Cool.

Good luck. Reach out if you need to vent or swap some ideas.

 

[TheCryptoAnt]

 

[thomasparra]

Cool.

Good luck. Reach out if you need to vent or swap some ideas.

Thanks, will do..

View attachment 4853

Funny. But again, the business might not easily reach 50k margin before year 2 and it's not like the forum has offered alternative options. Creating a company in another EU country or in a juridiction where I used to live (HK or US for instance) does not make sense either apparently.

I won't get killed by the French taxman on 50k before tax really... if/when I make EBIT in the 6 figure zone maybe then I can think of moving away...

 

[thomasparra]

What do you guys think about HK? Is it easy to bill European clients this way too?

 

[JustAnotherNomad]

What do you guys think about HK? Is it easy to bill European clients this way too?

The HK company would have to pay taxes in France, so what's the point?

 

[thomasparra]

The HK company would have to pay taxes in France, so what's the point?

I could move back my residency there and only come to France a couple months per year?

 

[Konstanz]

What do you guys think about HK? Is it easy to bill European clients this way too?

I think yes. You can open account in Europe. In some EMI like Bankera, Verifo for HK company and receive funds through SEPA

 

[thomasparra]

I think yes. You can open account in Europe. In some EMI like Bankera, Verifo for HK company and receive funds through SEPA

If my clients are businesses and located in Europe, paint me by wire transfer directly to the company bank accounts - does it still work realistically?

 

[JustAnotherNomad]

I could move back my residency there and only come to France a couple months per year?

You have to check the rules (especially if there is an applicable tax treaty) in detail. There's still a risk you'd be tax resident in France.
There's a major risk there will be a PE in France, but you may be able to fly under the radar.

 

[Konstanz]

If my clients are businesses and located in Europe, paint me by wire transfer directly to the company bank accounts - does it still work realistically?

Don't live in France. Emigrate to HK.
Incorporate in HK. Open account for HK in europe.
Yes, you will be able to bill European customers.
In my opinion this could work, because you will be staying and living with your girlfriend in HK. So, you will be HK resident and company will be HK resident.

 

[thomasparra]

Thanks for the tip. Indeed, I am thinking about this option more and more. Can I open a bank account in Europe for my HK company? I thought I could only do so in HK (unless you are talking about payment processors but maybe EMI like Wise work too?). I hope the HK contract that is under HK law will not deter potential customers in Europe

 

[TheCryptoAnt]

it's not like the forum has offered alternative options

tbh if you plan on staying in France for only a few years Id just roll the dice and go with a US LLC.
Keep your mouth shut and dont be flashy.

 

[thomasparra]

tbh if you plan on staying in France for only a few years Id just roll the dice and go with a US LLC.
Keep your mouth shut and dont be flashy.

Why wouldn't I move back to Hong Kong instead? The US LLC will still be taxed in France, especially as I have French clients so I don't think it would make sense. The way I see things:

1) Start the business in France, and when (and if) it generates a good income, I can move myself and the company to another juridiction

2) Start the business overseas right away but it will be more costly at first, not worth the tax savings versus staying in France for the first year

 

[TheCryptoAnt]

Why wouldn't I move back to Hong Kong instead?

If thats what you want then yeah move back, HK is a nice place to be.

The US LLC will still be taxed in France, especially as I have French clients so I don't think it would make sense. The way I see things:

1) Start the business in France, and when (and if) it generates a good income, I can move myself and the company to another juridiction
2) Start the business overseas right away but it will be more costly at first, not worth the tax savings versus staying in France for the first year

What Im saying is role the dice as in dont pay nothing, you dont even know if the biz will work and you are gonna be in France just for a few years so.

Dont say anything, and just use a corp where its convenient for you.