Best (non) CRS country to bank in? (as of July 2024)

[andorra]

wich is in your opinion best non crs bank? what you can recomend for an eu passport? is Lebanon is a good option?

 

[jafo]

Well I am a Canadian who is in the process of severing my ties with Canada who has recently obtained residency in Paraguay, and as stated above, the banks here are full of inconveniences to say the least.

I am just exploring options, as to where to get decent banking for me personally and for some USA LLC's. I am a Canadian citizen, but I would prefer to diversify away from Canada. I am also exploring the Philippines this winter to check out the scene for residency as well, and I am curious as to why someone said their banks might be ok, but not for USD? Also, I am travelling to Georgia this summer and working my way back through Turkey, and through S/E Europe and up the Balkans, and was just curious as to any of these countries had good options for banking that I could investigate while travelling.

I am retired fairly young, so I travel for the majority of the year. My ideal path in life is to be semi nomadic with 2-3 places to call semi home, and I am looking for bank accounts that offer me some privacy (although I know the days of complete banking secrecy are long gone).

I guess if I had to explain things, I don't trust Canada to come looking for money down the road as we are so deeply in debt, (think start taxing by citizenship) and if I can break the money trail once I leave, all the better. But, also I would like to keep my wealth out of the reach (or knowledge) of countries that I might be resident of for tax purposes, that perhaps could in the future decide to expropriate things. Yes, I know I am a TAD paranoid, but it helps me sleep better at night.

How I want to structure things...

Citizenship: Canada
Residency: Territorial tax jurisdiction like Paraguay or perhaps the Philippines, or another (ideas?)
Create USA LLC's to keep my assets at arms length (brokerage accounts, home trusts, etc)

So that leaves me banking. I still have a hard time navigating or wrapping my brain around what solutions would be best for me. There is nothing illegal about my wealth, except a desire for some diversification and a degree of opaqueness, from future lawsuits (say a car accident, or what not) and governments of questionable morals, or changing laws. It is however interesting to read earlier that becoming a resident of a non CRS country is just as powerful or even more so then banking in a non CRS country.

I consider myself a citizen of the world, but I know it can be a rough place, so just want to structure things to offer as much protection as possible, and of course minimize my heat score to be taken advantage of.

You are on the right track! @Cloudbanck has given you some marvelous options!

So for business banking, with a US LLC there are quite a few good options inside and outside the US. Id suggest to open 3-4 business accounts for redundancy. Example EMIs that support (or maybe support) US LLCs: Mercury (US), Levro (US), Airwallex (SG), Verifo (Lith), Zen (Lith), Narvi (Finland), Satchel (Lith), Ebury (UK), Zyla (US based, Chinese owned), Bancoli (US), VertoFX (UK), Currencies Direct (UK), FV Bank (Puerto Rico), Yoursafe (NL), Ecommbanx (CY), Paysera (UK), Pingpong (China), Meow (US), Wise (UK).

And then by getting an ITIN, and some sort of proof of address in the US, you can if you visit the US in person, open both a personal and a business bank account at a traditional US bank (or EMI).

Then for personal banking, Id also recommend having a bunch of accounts in banks in multiple countries, including in the US as above.

With residency in Paraguay you can open an account with Gibraltar-registered Xapo which is a great bank, especially if you are into Bitcoin. Also opening an account with Panama-based Towerbank should be possible.
And with Canadian citizenship and residency in Paraguay, maybe you can open a personal account in Lithuania based EMI Zen, worth a try! Paraguayan banks are not great btw, very bureaucratic and not supportive of international transfers, so would only open an account there if you stay in Paraguay a long time and need it to pay local bills or something.

With residency in the Philippines, you can open a personal Wise account.

And then you have the UK banks that offer offshore accounts like HSBC or Barclays. These are usually a bit more expensive with high minimum requirements, but should be available to a Canadian citizen residing almost anywhere in the world.

Further, if you can get residency in the EU/EEA even for a short while, say in Cyprus, that opens up a lot of possibilities for opening personal accounts at good EU based EMIs.

And finally, it is easy to get residency in the UAE, even if spending very little time there, and they have quite good local banks where you can open personal accounts.

Bruh, your description of some of Africa's banks is precisely what some African clients disclosed. I was reading it, and it was like déjà vu.

Great info you shared there!
Cheers!

 

[Piano]

From my experience Ecobank makes it difficult to make transfers out of the CFA Franc zone. It is not really their fault, it's the central bank that applies soft capital controls to support the peg to the EUR, and to prevent capital flight. So if you try to send money from Ecobank in the CFA Franc zone to the Eurozone they will ask you a lot of questions on why you want to make this transfer, and then delay the transfer for weeks, or stop it entirely. And I think Nigeria has even stricter capital controls. So people/businesses use stablecoins.

Another issue with Ecobank (but heard the same for Bank of Africa, Societe Generale and most banks in the CFA Franc zone) is that for anything non-basic, they will refer you to the "home" branch office where you opened the account, and if you want to change your home branch office, they make it an ultra difficult bureaucratic year-long process. And if the bank manager at your home branch office is on holidays, out sick or anything, then sorry they cant help you with most things.

And getting a debit card from Ecobank (and the other main CFA franc zone banks) can take a very long time. When your card expires, it's like tough luck, now you have to go to your branch office and ask for a new one and wait many months. It is such a contrast to a CFA Franc zone EMI called Djamo that sends you a debit card home by courier a day or two after you order it - showing that it is possible to make this work in Africa, and the big banks are just incompetent.

Also, a typical thing that happens with Ecobank and the other main CFA zone banks is that occasionally when you attempt to withdraw cash at an ATM, no cash comes out, but your account is still charged. And to get your money back it's a long and bureaucratic process where you file a complaint in person at your branch office. Oh, and they try to sell you insurance (especially NSIA Banque but most CFA Zone banks do this), and anything other than a strict no can be interpreted as a yes to buy insurance, and once you have bought it they'll charge you every month, and make it nearly impossible to cancel it, inventing unlimited bureaucratic hurdles.

And Ive been sending EUR from Europe to Ecobank for some real estate construction project, and they just randomly stopped a transfer until I had talked to the bank manager and put "Construction" in the reference. And of course they charged a hefty fx spread even if it is from EUR to CFA Franc which is pegged.

Ok, rant on Ecobank / African banks over. I try to avoid them as much as possible, and use moblie money, p2p and crypto instead.

Will you have also that problem with Ecobank in Cape Verde that does not belong to the CFA zone ?
I was told that you need to physically present in Cape Verde to make wires going out of Cape Verde to prevent money laundering

 

[Jock]

Philippines - can open USD bank accounts. Minimum is only 500USD. Think you need to be a resident though.

 

[John M]

Five years ago, Barclays UK closed my company accounts due the fact that I’ve paid a subcontractor in Serbia for a contract we were doing in Serbia (so it was a local subcontractor).
You can bank in non CRS countries but your clients will avoid paying you

 

[bibing]

Philippines (difficult to make USD work but possible if the deposit is right)

Not true

I am also exploring the Philippines this winter to check out the scene for residency as well, and I am curious as to why someone said their banks might be ok, but not for USD?

Because they don't know what they are talking about.

Please be aware that this forum, although can be a good source of information, is pestered by users who have done no research and talk about places they never set foot in. In short, kids who dreams about playing James Bond.

 

[TheCryptoAnt]

Not true

Try doing a few hundred keks lets see what happens

 

[Sols]

Please be aware that this forum, although can be a good source of information, is pestered by users who have done no research and talk about places they never set foot in. In short, kids who dreams about playing James Bond.

Do you have something meaningful to contribute, or are you limited to complaining about other members?

 

[bibing]

Do you have something meaningful to contribute, or are you limited to complaining about other members?

A PSA to OP about the quality of some members here is already quite a good contribution...I feel I touched a nerve there right?

Try doing a few hundred keks lets see what happens

Nothing will happen. If you are talking about getting a wire transfer of 500,000USD as a lump sum, there are probably a few (you can count them with one hand) countries whose banks will not question you. Almost everywhere they will want to hear some info from you.

Been there, done that.

Talking about Philippines. Since OP is interested in that.

Current AML laws in the country require, by government order (and not because the banks want it) to basically attach a proof of source for incoming transfers over 500,000PHP (or equivalent in USD).

There's no escape from that.

That doesn't mean you can't transfer 100,000USD or 300,000USD. But you need to attach a proof of source to that or the bank will simply refuse the incoming transfer and send back to sender (again, been there, done that)

Now kids, go watch The Man with the Golden Gun, that's my favourite Bond movie and let people with info and real life experience contribute to threads. Take care.

 

[Sols]

A PSA to OP about the quality of some members here is already quite a good contribution...I feel I touched a nerve there right?

No, I'm just wondering whether your post is just off topic (should be deleted) or if you can turn it around and contribute something to the thread.

And it looks like you can. Well done! Good job.

 

[jafo]

As a PSA...

I should interject here because I think some people have been misunderstood, probably due to their tone!

It finally hit me after ruminating about the comments here, so here's my life experience with this...

is pestered by users who have done no research and talk about places they never set foot in. In short, kids who dreams about playing James Bond.

Thank you for writing this because it sheds light on a phenomenon most people repel due to cognitive dissonance
Most people I know (outside of a professional setting by self-made captains of industry) are this way. They offer horrible advice that will lead one to the same place they are: poverty and despair!

You did apply "Praise by name and criticize by category," which is the right approach.
Source:

In defense of those trying to help without the "war" wounds and practical knowledge, "They just do not know; they don't know!" They think they are providing a valuable service but cannot determine the veracity of their "thoughts." I made a video on this topic to illustrate it, but I am too busy now to find it. +99.99% of people OVERESTIMATE their abilities and knowledge! (I'm being conservative with my numbers )
I have accumulated thousands of examples over decades, but here is one. Why else would a person like this

who does not need to impress anyone, lie to himself consistently for decades, knowing that in less than 60 seconds, his Potemkin Village will be burned down?

Nothing will happen. If you are talking about getting a wire transfer of 500,000USD as a lump sum, there are probably a few (you can count them with one hand) countries whose banks will not question you. Almost everywhere they will want to hear some info from you.

100% This! Battlefield knowledge right here. Hence why, our business networks and also other businessmen who are NOT politically connected and privileged in both Western and non-Western countries have moved to crypto, especially from cross-border payments/trade.

Talking about Philippines. Since OP is interested in that.

Current AML laws in the country require, by government order (and not because the banks want it) to basically attach a proof of source for incoming transfers over 500,000PHP (or equivalent in USD).

There's no escape from that.

That doesn't mean you can't transfer 100,000USD or 300,000USD. But you need to attach a proof of source to that or the bank will simply refuse the incoming transfer and send back to sender (again, been there, done that)

This is PRICELESS PHILIPPINES BANKING INTELLIGENCE here! I'm very grateful for this! Much appreciated!

Thank you for sharing!

 

[Forester]

wich is in your opinion best non crs bank? what you can recomend for an eu passport? is Lebanon is a good option?

Lebanon signed for CRS as of 2018 (IIRC).

 

[TheCryptoAnt]

A PSA to OP about the quality of some members here is already quite a good contribution...I feel I touched a nerve there right?

Nothing will happen. If you are talking about getting a wire transfer of 500,000USD as a lump sum, there are probably a few (you can count them with one hand) countries whose banks will not question you. Almost everywhere they will want to hear some info from you.

Been there, done that.

Talking about Philippines. Since OP is interested in that.

Current AML laws in the country require, by government order (and not because the banks want it) to basically attach a proof of source for incoming transfers over 500,000PHP (or equivalent in USD).

There's no escape from that.

That doesn't mean you can't transfer 100,000USD or 300,000USD. But you need to attach a proof of source to that or the bank will simply refuse the incoming transfer and send back to sender (again, been there, done that)

Now kids, go watch The Man with the Golden Gun, that's my favourite Bond movie and let people with info and real life experience contribute to threads. Take care.

 

[andorra]

Lebanon signed for CRS as of 2018 (IIRC),
i not think lebanon is implementing crs , i understood they did not start it yet

 

[Forester]

Lebanon signed for CRS as of 2018 (IIRC),
i not think lebanon is implementing crs , i understood they did not start it yet

Lebanon claimed officially that they started exchanging in 2018, see OECD website.

I can imagine that as of the general instability in this region, this can have some flaws. The banking system there is probably all but stable. I don't recommend anyone to test it

Regrettably, the times when Lebanon was a safe financial harbour of Middle East are long gone, I am afraid.

 

[12345]

Lebanon claimed officially that they started exchanging in 2018, see OECD website.

I can imagine that as of the general instability in this region, this can have some flaws. The banking system there is probably all but stable. I don't recommend anyone to test it

Regrettably, the times when Lebanon was a safe financial harbour of Middle East are long gone, I am afraid.

Do you think country like Lebanon would actually handle to report CRS ? Doubt their system can fulfill basic functions not to mention things like CRS. on the other hand how dirty does your money need to consider banking in Lebanon

 

[jafo]

dirty

?????

What do you mean dirty?

Are you implying that the 5.5 million residents of Lebanon who are banking in Lebanon have "dirty" money?

 

[Sols]

Do you think country like Lebanon would actually handle to report CRS ? Doubt their system can fulfill basic functions not to mention things like CRS. on the other hand how dirty does your money need to consider banking in Lebanon

CRS is easy to deploy.

Keep in mind that banks generally don't build their own core banking system. There's only a handful of vendors on the market that the vast majority of banks use. All of those systems are capable of being CRS compliant with rather minimal effort. So while it's not zero effort, it's not nearly as big of a administrative or technical project as it may seem.

?????

What do you mean dirty?

Are you implying that the 5.5 million residents of Lebanon who are banking in Lebanon have "dirty" money?

Lebanon has a long history of ironclad banking secrecy and banks that have survived multiple wars, making it an extremely attractive place to hide money and a banking haven in the region. There are (were) Lebanese banks that would get in private jets to fly to clients, pick up suit cases of cash, launder it for the client, keep a percentage, and deposit the rest on a bank account the client controls.

So there is plenty of dirty money in Lebanon. Relatively little of it belonging to the Lebanese, though.

 

[jafo]

CRS is easy to deploy.

Keep in mind that banks generally don't build their own core banking system. There's only a handful of vendors on the market that the vast majority of banks use. All of those systems are capable of being CRS compliant with rather minimal effort. So while it's not zero effort, it's not nearly as big of a administrative or technical project as it may seem.


Lebanon has a long history of ironclad banking secrecy and banks that have survived multiple wars, making it an extremely attractive place to hide money and a banking haven in the region. There are (were) Lebanese banks that would get in private jets to fly to clients, pick up suit cases of cash, launder it for the client, keep a percentage, and deposit the rest on a bank account the client controls.

So there is plenty of dirty money in Lebanon. Relatively little of it belonging to the Lebanese, though.

(Almost) Everything they did is commendable and deserves praise. Now, I am not clear on the "launder" part...

(1) Were the proceeds derived from "mala in se" crimes? For example, whacking their parents and stealing the parents' savings? Yeah, that would definitely be money laundering.

xor...

(2) Were the proceeds derived from "mala prohibita" crimes? For example, proceeds from selling insulin manufactured by GeroPharm to Venezuela? Source: The first lot of the Russian insulins manufactured by GEROPHARM has been supplied to Venezuela - 11 December 2019



PS. I love Lebanon now more than ever! I should visit!

 

[Sols]

(Almost) Everything they did is commendable and deserves praise. Now, I am not clear on the "launder" part...

(1) Were the proceeds derived from "mala in se" crimes? For example, whacking their parents and stealing the parents' savings? Yeah, that would definitely be money laundering.

xor...

(2) Were the proceeds derived from "mala prohibita" crimes? For example, proceeds from selling insulin manufactured by GeroPharm to Venezuela? Source: The first lot of the Russian insulins manufactured by GEROPHARM has been supplied to Venezuela - 11 December 2019

Both kinds. Doesn't (didn't) matter. People had cash they needed to get into the financial system. The bank(s) made that happen. There was a fee. Both parties benefitted.

Outside of Switzerland and Liechtenstein, Lebanon was also known as a place to get a numbered account and they were fine with bearer shares companies. So you could have an offshore company with bearer shares, wire money, and then pay a dividend to a numbered bank account to whoever the bearer was.

PS. I love Lebanon now more than ever! I should visit!

Most of that is gone or reduces now. With the current situation in Lebanon, the banks aren't exactly thriving. When Lebanon stabilizes, I'm sure the banks will be hungry for money again after sanctions and warning lists ease off. But international standards on AML have changed and they have laws in place now to ensure CRS compliance. In the past, it required major political involvement to lift banking secrecy.