Best (non) CRS country to bank in? (as of July 2024)

[FREE CITIZEN]

With the ever dwindling amount of countries that are not part of the CRS reporting rules, which countries as of today have the best banking solutions for not residents or expats that live in country?

Banks for personal accounts or foreign businesses?

 

[Forester]

There are some threads devoted to this here already, try to search
Just generally, personal accounts seem to be easier available than business ones.

 

[12345]

USA

 

[Cloudbanck]

USA is a good answer. But beside that, one can live in a non-CRS country but bank in a CRS country. This way one gets good banking and no reporting.

 

[Sols]

USA is unreliable as there is FATCA, which although very sporadic in its reciprocity is still a risk.

Best to establish residence in such a way that CRS is a non-issue.

Chasing non-CRS banks is a hopeless project. Save yourself stress and headache. Accept CRS and plan for it, not to avoid it.

 

[12345]

USA is unreliable as there is FATCA, which although very sporadic in its reciprocity is still a risk.

Best to establish residence in such a way that CRS is a non-issue.

Chasing non-CRS banks is a hopeless project. Save yourself stress and headache. Accept CRS and plan for it, not to avoid it.

as far as I know reciprocity is very unlikely with FATCA
Also there is list of countries that USA deems as not trustworthy enough to share any FATCA information to, then there is 0% risk, you can find the list online I think that it includes some south america and SEA countries, western countries surely not.

Well it's up for OP to choose. relocating to no tax jurisdiction is the best choice but it might not be possible for everybody because of family etc
If the tax rate is acceptable I'd pay but if it's a socialist tax hell 60% tax then I'd look for other options.

 

[jafo]

as far as I know reciprocity is very unlikely with FATCA
Also there is list of countries that USA deems as not trustworthy enough to share any FATCA information to, then there is 0% risk, you can find the list online I think that it includes some south america and SEA countries,

100% this!
I have been using this technique since 2001, and not a single piece of information has been shared with the "unfriendly" nation-state.
I have a LOT of "friends" who work in US financial institutions. They are NOT going to send Mr. Caracas' bank details to, e.g., Venezuela (unless Mr. Caracas runs afoul of the empire; of course, this is ONLY after they convict, sentence, remand to prison, and deport Mr. Caracas).

 

[Martin Everson]

as far as I know reciprocity is very unlikely with FATCA

Not true. The U.S has shared data under FATCA and continue to do so. I discussed in another thread below back in 2019 that they are already sharing.

Do I understand that US financial institutions DO NOT report non-us person deposits in them?

Ok, can you show the document of FACTA and precise paragraph which states what information is AUTOMATICALLY exchanged at end of year. Where is this said? No problem Article 2 of the FATCA agreement i.e UK/US FATCA agreement (Same for all EU agreements with US)...

www.offshorecorptalk.com

As @Sols said you need to organise yourself so CRS is not an issue. Otherwise the choice of non-CRS jurisdictions to bank as of today is.....

"Algeria, Angola, Belarus, Benin, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Botswana, Burkina Faso, Cabo Verde, Cambodia, Chad, Congo (Republic of the), Côted’Ivoire, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Djibouti, Dominican Republic, Egypt, El Salvador, Eswatini, Fiji, Gabon, Guatemala, Guinea, Guyana,Haiti, Honduras, Lesotho, Liberia, Madagascar, Mali, Mauritania, Namibia, Niger, North Macedonia, Palau, Paraguay, Philippines, Serbia, SierraLeone, Tanzania, Togo, Uzbekistan, Viet Nam, Zambia, Zimbabwe"


....not very appetizing .

 

[Sols]

as far as I know reciprocity is very unlikely with FATCA

I know people who thought the same.

I also know people who are still getting away with it.

That's why I say it's unreliable and risky.

"Algeria, Angola, Belarus, Benin, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Botswana, Burkina Faso, Cabo Verde, Cambodia, Chad, Congo (Republic of the), Côted’Ivoire, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Djibouti, Dominican Republic, Egypt, El Salvador, Eswatini, Fiji, Gabon, Guatemala, Guinea, Guyana,Haiti, Honduras, Lesotho, Liberia, Madagascar, Mali, Mauritania, Namibia, Niger, North Macedonia, Palau, Paraguay, Philippines, Serbia, SierraLeone, Tanzania, Togo, Uzbekistan, Viet Nam, Zambia, Zimbabwe"


....not very appetizing .

TBH, there are decent banking options in some of those places, some of which can even be arranged for non-residents (with the right contacts). But the problem is that none of them are actively fighting against CRS. They will all sooner or later sign up. Signing up for CRS is a net positive.

 

[Martin Everson]

Yeah your right there might be a few good banking options now I think about it.

 

[jafo]

Not true. The U.S has shared data under FATCA and continue to do so. I discussed in another thread below back in 2019 that they are already sharing.

Partially true.
Noticed they will NOT share data even with Monaco (although it would make no difference). Also, it is strange that Switzerland is not on the list posted.

It is safe to say that if you have some money and your "residency" for purposes of a US bank account (wink wink, but legit) is in places like Venezuela, Bolivia, and other places unfriendly to the West, there is not much of a chance they will share it with them—and even if they do, you won't be there to deal with the local backlash anyway!

Frankly, if someone can't afford about €230/month for an apartment in Caracas, Venezuela, Bellisima Habitación Residencial En Terrazas Del Avila - U$S 250 they ought NOT be trying to outsmart useless and unproductive, but violent criminal organizations under the ruse of government!

Always have at least one video camera doorbell with a 180° view outside the apartment. Furthermore, a roll-up steel security door and a motion detection camera should be installed directly behind it. Like this one, e.g.,

Think of all this as the canary-in-the-coalmine warning! Nobody else, except the US banks, would have this address, so if it leaks and strange, uninvited people knock on your door or knock it down, put on your rollerblades and mosey on down (or up) to Russia.

I wrote about this vis-à-vis Suriname for the non-Dutch and the "allochtoon." It's here: UBO register coming to US, no more privacy (illicit finance target).

Of course, exercise extreme caution. I am against living in ANY country and NOT paying the "useless bandits" what they deem to be their "fair share." If I move to the UK, I would pay them what we agreed upon...BUT I am NOT going to pay them just because my mom was born in London, even though I have NEVER lived there, nor was I born there...out of a sense of misguided "loyalty."

But since we are dealing with "gangsters" under the ruse of "government," it is wise ALWAYS to set a trap, i.e., a canary in the coal mine, to give you enough time to take cover. There is NO honor in doing prison time for a victimless mala prohibita crime! None whatsoever!

PS. Traveling/vacationing between Russia and China on the Transiberian train From Saint Petersburg to Shanghai by Train from €355.00 | railcc is phenomenal and beats doing ANY hard time under "lockdown" or in the SHU.

 

[Forester]

TBH, there are decent banking options in some of those places, some of which can even be arranged for non-residents (with the right contacts).

Just out of curiosity, are you speaking about Madagascar, North Macedonia, Viet Nam, maybe Bosnia and Herzegovina and perhaps El Salvador, Philippines and Serbia? (There may be more but sometimes I'm lacking the information.)

 

[Sols]

Just out of curiosity, are you speaking about Madagascar, North Macedonia, Viet Nam, maybe Bosnia and Herzegovina and perhaps El Salvador, Philippines and Serbia? (There may be more but sometimes I'm lacking the information.)

Looking at the list, the ones I have experience with have all had decent options.

In Africa, banks like Ecobank, Bank of Africa, Standard Bank, and Zenith provide pretty consistently good services in all countries they're in. Solid internet banking and AFAIK fully online/electronic wire transfers (no printing/signing forms or even filling in PDFs) all over. In some countries/regions you have local/regional banks that can also be good. SWIFT wires in USD and EUR are often subject to extra DD so you just have to be prepared for that. Another problem you might run into is slow service if you need help with tracing a transaction, get a quote for a high-value FX swap, opening additional accounts, and so on.

The European ones (Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia) have solid banking options but — again — extra scrutiny.

In Latin America, you can find usually find decent banks all over. Citibank, Santander, and BBVA are usually safe bets, but local/regional banks can be just as good. Would I pick Guatemala as my preferred and primary international banking hub? No. But would I be comfortable banking in Guatemala for a Guatemalan company that exists to benefit from the territorial tax system? Sure.

The ones that come to mind as having bad banks and/or just difficult to bank in are those subject to sanctions (current or recent) or politically unstable. Even a bank with a good platform can't get around those problems. Belarus, DRC, Haiti, Niger, and so on.

Of course, none of these are major financial centers. If you need sophisticated financial services, I'm not sure how many of these countries would actually qualify.

 

[TheCryptoAnt]

"Algeria, Angola, Belarus, Benin, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Botswana, Burkina Faso, Cabo Verde, Cambodia, Chad, Congo (Republic of the), Côted’Ivoire, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Djibouti, Dominican Republic, Egypt, El Salvador, Eswatini, Fiji, Gabon, Guatemala, Guinea, Guyana,Haiti, Honduras, Lesotho, Liberia, Madagascar, Mali, Mauritania, Namibia, Niger, North Macedonia, Palau, Paraguay, Philippines, Serbia, SierraLeone, Tanzania, Togo, Uzbekistan, Viet Nam, Zambia, Zimbabwe"

Cambodia, Guatemala, Paraguay, Philippines (difficult to make USD work but possible if the deposit is right), Serbia, Uzbekistan (Sanctions risk questions all the time but doable), Viet Nam (great option but requires a private banking relationship for it to be smooth).

This is the shortened list imo

 

[Cloudbanck]

Looking at the list, the ones I have experience with have all had decent options.

In Africa, banks like Ecobank, Bank of Africa, Standard Bank, and Zenith provide pretty consistently good services in all countries they're in. Solid internet banking and AFAIK fully online/electronic wire transfers (no printing/signing forms or even filling in PDFs) all over. In some countries/regions you have local/regional banks that can also be good. SWIFT wires in USD and EUR are often subject to extra DD so you just have to be prepared for that. Another problem you might run into is slow service if you need help with tracing a transaction, get a quote for a high-value FX swap, opening additional accounts, and so on.

From my experience Ecobank makes it difficult to make transfers out of the CFA Franc zone. It is not really their fault, it's the central bank that applies soft capital controls to support the peg to the EUR, and to prevent capital flight. So if you try to send money from Ecobank in the CFA Franc zone to the Eurozone they will ask you a lot of questions on why you want to make this transfer, and then delay the transfer for weeks, or stop it entirely. And I think Nigeria has even stricter capital controls. So people/businesses use stablecoins.

Another issue with Ecobank (but heard the same for Bank of Africa, Societe Generale and most banks in the CFA Franc zone) is that for anything non-basic, they will refer you to the "home" branch office where you opened the account, and if you want to change your home branch office, they make it an ultra difficult bureaucratic year-long process. And if the bank manager at your home branch office is on holidays, out sick or anything, then sorry they cant help you with most things.

And getting a debit card from Ecobank (and the other main CFA franc zone banks) can take a very long time. When your card expires, it's like tough luck, now you have to go to your branch office and ask for a new one and wait many months. It is such a contrast to a CFA Franc zone EMI called Djamo that sends you a debit card home by courier a day or two after you order it - showing that it is possible to make this work in Africa, and the big banks are just incompetent.

Also, a typical thing that happens with Ecobank and the other main CFA zone banks is that occasionally when you attempt to withdraw cash at an ATM, no cash comes out, but your account is still charged. And to get your money back it's a long and bureaucratic process where you file a complaint in person at your branch office. Oh, and they try to sell you insurance (especially NSIA Banque but most CFA Zone banks do this), and anything other than a strict no can be interpreted as a yes to buy insurance, and once you have bought it they'll charge you every month, and make it nearly impossible to cancel it, inventing unlimited bureaucratic hurdles.

And Ive been sending EUR from Europe to Ecobank for some real estate construction project, and they just randomly stopped a transfer until I had talked to the bank manager and put "Construction" in the reference. And of course they charged a hefty fx spread even if it is from EUR to CFA Franc which is pegged.

Ok, rant on Ecobank / African banks over. I try to avoid them as much as possible, and use moblie money, p2p and crypto instead.

 

[Tetiana]

So people/businesses use stablecoins

How do you converto fiat into stablecoin in Africa? Sorry for newbie question

 

[Cloudbanck]

How do you converto fiat into stablecoin in Africa? Sorry for newbie question

Binance p2p, Paxful, Noones, lnp2pbot, street exchange bureaus, private/underground OTC desks, private whatsapp groups, p2p within the Bitcoin community.

I have a friend of mine who is an OTC dealer/broker. Tried once mostly out of curiosity to exchange BTC to local currency. The buyer said he wanted 100k USD's worth of BTC or Stablecoins. I was like yeah, Ill just test with 5k. Went to an office, seller was a local guy but said he normally lived in Russia and needed crypto for some unclear but shady sounding website/webservice. Anyway, he had machines to count bills (largest local bill is 15 EUR), and I got 5k USD equivalent plus 4% premium in local currency, and paid BTC onchain - no problems!

 

[Forester]

Looking at the list, the ones I have experience with have all had decent options.

In Africa, banks like Ecobank, Bank of Africa, Standard Bank, and Zenith provide pretty consistently good services in all countries they're in. Solid internet banking and AFAIK fully online/electronic wire transfers (no printing/signing forms or even filling in PDFs) all over. In some countries/regions you have local/regional banks that can also be good. SWIFT wires in USD and EUR are often subject to extra DD so you just have to be prepared for that. Another problem you might run into is slow service if you need help with tracing a transaction, get a quote for a high-value FX swap, opening additional accounts, and so on.

The European ones (Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia) have solid banking options but — again — extra scrutiny.

In Latin America, you can find usually find decent banks all over. Citibank, Santander, and BBVA are usually safe bets, but local/regional banks can be just as good. Would I pick Guatemala as my preferred and primary international banking hub? No. But would I be comfortable banking in Guatemala for a Guatemalan company that exists to benefit from the territorial tax system? Sure.

The ones that come to mind as having bad banks and/or just difficult to bank in are those subject to sanctions (current or recent) or politically unstable. Even a bank with a good platform can't get around those problems. Belarus, DRC, Haiti, Niger, and so on.

Of course, none of these are major financial centers. If you need sophisticated financial services, I'm not sure how many of these countries would actually qualify.

Yes, I understand your point.
Just adding that from I have witnessed, I believe in the overall positive experience with Standard Bank.

Cambodia, Guatemala, Paraguay, Philippines (difficult to make USD work but possible if the deposit is right), Serbia, Uzbekistan (Sanctions risk questions all the time but doable), Viet Nam (great option but requires a private banking relationship for it to be smooth).

This is the shortened list imo

Thanks for sharing.
Just re: Paraguay, from what I have witnessed:
– a banking for non-residents is next to impossible there;
– even for residents, international payments are extremely difficult or almost impossible unless you have a quite long history with the bank;
– generally, many things are complicated if you do not know the right people at the right places.

 

[FREE CITIZEN]

Well I am a Canadian who is in the process of severing my ties with Canada who has recently obtained residency in Paraguay, and as stated above, the banks here are full of inconveniences to say the least.

I am just exploring options, as to where to get decent banking for me personally and for some USA LLC's. I am a Canadian citizen, but I would prefer to diversify away from Canada. I am also exploring the Philippines this winter to check out the scene for residency as well, and I am curious as to why someone said their banks might be ok, but not for USD? Also, I am travelling to Georgia this summer and working my way back through Turkey, and through S/E Europe and up the Balkans, and was just curious as to any of these countries had good options for banking that I could investigate while travelling.

I am retired fairly young, so I travel for the majority of the year. My ideal path in life is to be semi nomadic with 2-3 places to call semi home, and I am looking for bank accounts that offer me some privacy (although I know the days of complete banking secrecy are long gone).

I guess if I had to explain things, I don't trust Canada to come looking for money down the road as we are so deeply in debt, (think start taxing by citizenship) and if I can break the money trail once I leave, all the better. But, also I would like to keep my wealth out of the reach (or knowledge) of countries that I might be resident of for tax purposes, that perhaps could in the future decide to expropriate things. Yes, I know I am a TAD paranoid, but it helps me sleep better at night.

How I want to structure things...

Citizenship: Canada
Residency: Territorial tax jurisdiction like Paraguay or perhaps the Philippines, or another (ideas?)
Create USA LLC's to keep my assets at arms length (brokerage accounts, home trusts, etc)

So that leaves me banking. I still have a hard time navigating or wrapping my brain around what solutions would be best for me. There is nothing illegal about my wealth, except a desire for some diversification and a degree of opaqueness, from future lawsuits (say a car accident, or what not) and governments of questionable morals, or changing laws. It is however interesting to read earlier that becoming a resident of a non CRS country is just as powerful or even more so then banking in a non CRS country.

I consider myself a citizen of the world, but I know it can be a rough place, so just want to structure things to offer as much protection as possible, and of course minimize my heat score to be taken advantage of.

 

[Cloudbanck]

So for business banking, with a US LLC there are quite a few good options inside and outside the US. Id suggest to open 3-4 business accounts for redundancy. Example EMIs that support (or maybe support) US LLCs: Mercury (US), Levro (US), Airwallex (SG), Verifo (Lith), Zen (Lith), Narvi (Finland), Satchel (Lith), Ebury (UK), Zyla (US based, Chinese owned), Bancoli (US), VertoFX (UK), Currencies Direct (UK), FV Bank (Puerto Rico), Yoursafe (NL), Ecommbanx (CY), Paysera (UK), Pingpong (China), Meow (US), Wise (UK).

And then by getting an ITIN, and some sort of proof of address in the US, you can if you visit the US in person, open both a personal and a business bank account at a traditional US bank (or EMI).

Then for personal banking, Id also recommend having a bunch of accounts in banks in multiple countries, including in the US as above.

With residency in Paraguay you can open an account with Gibraltar-registered Xapo which is a great bank, especially if you are into Bitcoin. Also opening an account with Panama-based Towerbank should be possible.
And with Canadian citizenship and residency in Paraguay, maybe you can open a personal account in Lithuania based EMI Zen, worth a try! Paraguayan banks are not great btw, very bureaucratic and not supportive of international transfers, so would only open an account there if you stay in Paraguay a long time and need it to pay local bills or something.

With residency in the Philippines, you can open a personal Wise account.

And then you have the UK banks that offer offshore accounts like HSBC or Barclays. These are usually a bit more expensive with high minimum requirements, but should be available to a Canadian citizen residing almost anywhere in the world.

Further, if you can get residency in the EU/EEA even for a short while, say in Cyprus, that opens up a lot of possibilities for opening personal accounts at good EU based EMIs.

And finally, it is easy to get residency in the UAE, even if spending very little time there, and they have quite good local banks where you can open personal accounts.