Best country for a crypto hermit?

[drysky]

Apologies for giving out wrong information. This is strictly from experience and not legal advise from my side. I should have made this clear.
The gentlemen above are absolutely right.

 

[SusanSharandon]

There is no risk with CBI in Turkey, there are no checks on anything besides if you are on some Interpol wanted list haha. You can easily cash out there with really no questions asked, walk into the bank with a fat sack of cash mid-6 figures, deposit it like nothing, not a single question asked by anybody lol

That being said I don't know if Turkey is the right place for a single woman

I have one more question please: is this still the case if I eventually get a residence permit there? Or will they become more nosy once I'm a resident?

 

[3leaf]

"simply and cheaply away from the eyes of the gov, primarily off crypto?"

Switzerland is a very bad place for that as it is neither cheap and the gov will put its nose in your affairs regarding tax if you do not have a standard job.
You'd need the lump sum tax deals for privacy but these are then not cheap again. UK also not cheap.

In Africa you can live well like you described, no one will care about you and generally leave you alone if you do not draw unnecessary attention by doing stupid things.

Unfortunately, Im an American with the IRS following me everywhere. I have considered renouncing my citizenship but Im over $2M (cryptos) so that triggers the exit tax. Thinking I'll just pay the dues and then lay low.... Im on my way to South Africa Western Cape - many say it is the best place to hide out during these tyrannical times. If that doesn't go well, I can move onto Egypt. Thanks for the heads up about Egypt, was not aware.

 

[PiersBlack]

I know personally a few people ended up in jail for buying crypto for cash, and no, they couldn't buy their way out paying the guys in uniform, it's not always the case.

Care to elaborate? What were the charges?

 

[Mercury]

"Regarding Thailand. There is a lot of misinformation and nonsense posted." - I mention your introduction cause it suits your post.

If you are bringing to Thailand a dividend from abroad for example, you can get it without working (so no work visa needed, all perfectly legit), but living there for more than 183 days / year makes you a fiscal resident, no matter what, therefore you must pay tax. PERIOD. There is no BUT or IF. You stay 183 days, you are fiscally resident. The only way to avoid paying taxes is to leave the money abroad and take them in later on.

Is the bank gonna question you about the source of money? Nope. Will the Revenue Dept. catch you for it? Probably not, just 10 million thai file the tax return and just 3 million pay taxes. BUT... this doesn't make it legal either.


Regarding the thread: legally Thailand is pretty advanced about crypto, and if you want to follow the rules unlike @drysky, it's the last place you'd like to be. I know personally a few people ended up in jail for buying crypto for cash, and no, they couldn't buy their way out paying the guys in uniform, it's not always the case.

The point here is not the law, it's law enforcement.

In the western world, if you play with the laws/rules you will end up in jail or get fined if caught.

In many emerging countries, and Thailand is still part of it, the fact is laws and rules are barely enforced because of:
- Lack of means/manpower
- High level of corruption
- Simply not willing to for obvious reasons

As a foreigner, it's always profitable to adapt and follow the local culture rather than behaving like you're home.

As for now, if you keep low profile, keep your businesses abroad and bring your money the year after it has been earned, you will never get into trouble in Thailand. Thai Revenue Department has no way nor willing to check you.

 

[moneyhoney]

As for now, if you keep low profile, keep your businesses abroad and bring your money the year after it has been earned, you will never get into trouble in Thailand. Thai Revenue Department has no way nor willing to check you.

This is respecting the rules, so why should they fine you? It's a different story saying: f**k it, get the money from your Cyprus company whenever, ignore the fact you are a tax resident, work from here with no work permit or do whatever you want with crypto, no one will ever catch you and even if they do, you can pay your way out cause corruption is rampant. Is it the case many times? Absolutely. It's this always the case? Absolutely NOT.

Care to elaborate? What were the charges?

All different cases. Some have been caught dealing with cash coming from scams/drugs, others charged for money laundering + working with no visa + no license for dealing with crypto. I know you can go right now on Localbitcoin and find people dealing with cryptos with no either license or whatever, but must be clear that you take a risk and the penalties aren't soft.

 

[backpacker]

Btw @Bagpacker Any update on our last discussion?, I can PM you If you don't want to discuss it on the public forum

@MiddleEuroAsia
Sent you the respective PM. Please check your inbox.

As for now, if you keep low profile, keep your businesses abroad and bring your money the year after it has been earned, you will never get into trouble in Thailand.

This is applicable to passive income and -to a certain extend- capital gains. If you run an active business out of Thailand or you are invested into crypto (even passive HODL) things look VERY different!

Thai Revenue Department has no way nor willing to check you.

This willingness will significantly increase once they participate in the CRS (first exchange of data: 2023)!

 

[Mercury]

This is applicable to passive income and -to a certain extend- capital gains. If you run an active business out of Thailand or you are invested into crypto (even passive HODL) things look VERY different!

This willingness will significantly increase once they participate in the CRS (first exchange of data: 2023)!

Maybe you don't get my point or you want to keep seeing things wearing your western glasses.

For instance, over the 15 past years in Thailand I've seen personally many people living from stock, forex and lastly crypto trading (remotely, nothing linked to Thailand). I've never heard nor read in the local news of some foreigner being caught/fined/jailed because he was "working" on his computer while at home. Did/will it happen?... possibly, however it should be a really small number of people certainly involved with other issues (money laundering, drugs, scams, ...).

Nothing's certain in this current world (regardless the country you live in) and when you make a decision you need to assess pros/cons as well as associated risks. From my own experience risks associated to "discreetly trading online while residing in Thailand" are still very small, for now.

If tomorrow things change then, of course, you will have to adapt and move on. But this is valid anywhere in the world including EU or UAE where rules can change in a finger's snap and law enforcement is not as "flexible".

 

[zzzzzz]

Regarding Thailand. There is a lot of misinformation and nonsense posted.
You are perfectly fine in Thailand living off your crypto and cashing it out when you have a student (ED) or Elite visa, as you are not allowed to work on those visas and won't get a work permit.
No work permit means no tax to pay.
After more than a decad in Thailand and not paying a single cent in taxes, while having a bank account at almost every thai branch and receiving wires from from BVI, Cyprus etc I have not encountered a single problem.

No work permit = no tax liability in Thailand

If you suddenly want to start and pay tax in Thailand you mind end up getting deported for 'working without a work permit'.
In case you settle for Thailand, keep your head down, get an elite visa for 20k and no one will bother you. Buying a condo or car in cash is no problem either.
If you run into problems, the men in uniform will happily take your money and look the other way.

Do you have Elite visa? Where are you resident and tax resident then? Does this also work with foreign stock brokers or just with crypto? Now you have CRS and tax information exchange and every bank or broker will ask you "Where are you tax resident?" so they can send the data to tax authority in your country of tax residence.

 

[JohnLocke]

every bank or broker will ask you "Where are you tax resident?" so they can send the data to tax authority in your country of tax residence.

If we speak crypto there are lot of ways to avoid providing this information. Many don't even need any KYC.

 

[3leaf]

@Bagpacker @moneyhoney Looking for some advice as an American moving to South Africa and starting a new business. Do you recommend I base my business in the US or start up in South Africa? Id like to have minimal tax reporting and not be double taxed. This will be a local business growing microgreens for local markets, restaurants, farmer markets. Appreciate input on optimal entity type, where to register the business, etc. I might sell grow kits online as well. Thanks in advance

 

[369]

If we speak crypto there are lot of ways to avoid providing this information. Many don't even need any KYC.

In 98% of cases they don't even need it as they know it anyway

@Bagpacker @moneyhoney Looking for some advice as an American moving to South Africa and starting a new business. Do you recommend I base my business in the US or start up in South Africa? Id like to have minimal tax reporting and not be double taxed. This will be a local business growing microgreens for local markets, restaurants, farmer markets. Appreciate input on optimal entity type, where to register the business, etc. I might sell grow kits online as well. Thanks in advance

I would recommend first checking how food will be produced in 2030.It won't be the old school way anymore

 

[JackAlabama]

@Bagpacker @moneyhoney Looking for some advice as an American moving to South Africa and starting a new business. Do you recommend I base my business in the US or start up in South Africa? Id like to have minimal tax reporting and not be double taxed. This will be a local business growing microgreens for local markets, restaurants, farmer markets. Appreciate input on optimal entity type, where to register the business, etc. I might sell grow kits online as well. Thanks in advance

As having personally met a lot South Africans emigrating from ZA, I do not have much confidence in that place besides going on a simple vacation.
So, if you do business on the ground, I would hence keep most of assets out of that country and do the online operations over a us entity and just the ZA-on-the-ground operations run thru a ZA entity, which maybe is owned by the USA one.

 

[kkein]

How about Switzerland, for a crypto hermit that is not into hassles?

 

[JackAlabama]

How about Switzerland, for a crypto hermit that is not into hassles?

Very bad if you are not "into hassles".
Unless you find a good group of trusted advisors who can structure your affairs with the tax and residency offices, then it is ok as you can delegate everything but be prepared to pay good money.
Overall, costs are very very high and the weather is bad for most part of the year.

If you want to go for it, look for a good service provider who can negotiate a flat tax deal for you then it is relatively low hassle. But this will cost. You can make it work well there, but it is not the exact definition of "no hassles" and it is expensive.

 

[backpacker]

@Bagpacker @moneyhoney Looking for some advice as an American moving to South Africa and starting a new business.

Since you mentioned me: I have no experience with regards to South Africa, hence are unable to answer your question.
However, I still remember that many years ago South African farmers migrated to Georgia. Considering the difference between these two countries (culture + climate), it says a lot about the (agricultural) opportunities in South Africa.
Read -> Georgia's call for South African farmers and -> When Georgia invited South African farmers to revive its agriculture sector .

How about Switzerland, for a crypto hermit that is not into hassles?

... Only if you want to use CH in order to cash out and later on you will be a Multi-Millionair who enjoys paying wealth taxes, loves extremely high cost of living + has fun paying all the little duties and fees levied on him.
Also do not forget that in case you exclusively do crypto trading (or other stock trading) you will be taxed as a professional trader which automatically makes you liable to social security contributions (i.e. government pension system AHV).
In order to evaluate if you run into the danger of being considered a professional trader, read this -> Capital gains tax - tax free in swiss? | Your platform for finance & taxes

 

[4br]

I can't say much about these, but Vanuatnu is a real backwater country. Seems they have been cut off from the USD and they are struggling for economic opportunities. You can buy a passport for $130,000 (you loose the cash), but it's also easy to get residency there and get citizenship for next to nothing in a few years. You can pay for citizenship with BTC, so I imagine there are many opportunities for Bitcoin.

https://www.financemagnates.com/exe...or-gears-up-with-a-leading-crypto-consultant/
Russia and Ukraine have a thriving crypto to cash economy. You can find people to sell to on VK or Localbicoins.

Then there is Antuiga, which has a crypto-friendly government, ATMs, 50+ businesses that accept crypto. I don't know specifics, but suspect you'd have options for crypto hermit there.


You can also look at this program called Bisq:

https://bisq.network/
This is a P2P exchange, which as like a semi-automated LocalBitcoins. I haven't used it, but have spoken to someone who has and said it worked fine. But I think there are larger markups and the transactions are quite small. But it gives the possibility of being able to live anywhere if you can get enough can via it.

Finally on Dubai, it might not be as good as other places mentioned liked Egypt in the long-run. Looks like UAE will move on to some level of scrutiny for real estate:

https://www.centralbank.ae/sites/de...tate and Precious Metals & Stones sectors.pdf
This is The OECD tightening its noose.

 

[JackAlabama]

Since you mentioned me: I have no experience with regards to South Africa, hence are unable to answer your question.
However, I still remember that many years ago South African farmers migrated to Georgia. Considering the difference between these two countries (culture + climate), it says a lot about the (agricultural) opportunities in South Africa.
Read -> Georgia's call for South African farmers and -> When Georgia invited South African farmers to revive its agriculture sector .


... Only if you want to use CH in order to cash out and later on you will be a Multi-Millionair who enjoys paying wealth taxes, loves extremely high cost of living + has fun paying all the little duties and fees levied on him.
Also do not forget that in case you exclusively do crypto trading (or other stock trading) you will be taxed as a professional trader which automatically makes you liable to social security contributions (i.e. government pension system AHV).
In order to evaluate if you run into the danger of being considered a professional trader, read this -> Capital gains tax - tax free in swiss? | Your platform for finance & taxes

Some of that can be mitigated if you do all trading inside a company and pay yourself a very small salary out of it which then will get the heavy tax and what not cuts (but since the salary is low it does not really matter due to high progessive tax rate nature.
The company can be based in some very low tax canton where one might would not want to live anyway.
A lot can be done but it requires the right advisors and it is a lot of admin work.

 

[Nomad777]

What would be the best country for someone who wants to live simply and cheaply away from the eyes of the gov, primarily off crypto? I want to live a minimalistic lifestyle(Narrator: she didn't, but she didn't think luxury was worth the risk). I don't want to work neither. Cabin in the woods in not an option, as I am a woman with minimal (probably 0) survival skills. Not very picky about the country neither, just as long it's regulations are lax, the weather is nice, crypto to cash OFC requires no KYC and I can pay for basic necessities in cash. I'm set on Turkey right now(in limbo if I should risk a CBI or just buy a cheap studio and live indeterminately with a resident visa, hoping EU won't search for me), but I'm not sure how it will play in the long run. I'm afraid that I might one day discover that I am old, alone, in a world where crypto is deemed illegal, with no 'legal' cash to pay for healthcare. Although old and rich in a surveillance dystopian EU might be an ever more tragic end to my comedy life.

Hello, if you want to solely live on Crypto in a country that is quite safe and living standards are pretty good i can suggest North Cyprus. Cyprus is an island in the Mediterranean sea. There is a border in the middle of the island, its split between the Turks and the Greeks. So the north side the Turkish Side and south side is the Greek side. North Side of the island is not recognized as a country, only by Turkey. So thats why there are many casinos, offshore accounts can be made and a lot of Crypto exchange offices everywhere. There are now many Nigerian Scammers living out here, driving around in Bentleys, all new Mercedes and BMWs due to these reasons. I think North Cyprus is ahead of every country right now in regards to Crypto Currency, because people can walk into Nike, Tommy hilfiger, Car dealership or even buy properties in Crypto. If you would like more details you can message me privately.

Hello, if you want to solely live on Crypto in a country that is quite safe and living standards are pretty good i can suggest North Cyprus. Cyprus is an island in the Mediterranean sea. There is a border in the middle of the island, its split between the Turks and the Greeks. So the north side the Turkish Side and south side is the Greek side. North Side of the island is not recognized as a country, only by Turkey. So thats why there are many casinos, offshore accounts can be made and a lot of Crypto exchange offices everywhere. There are now many Nigerian Scammers living out here, driving around in Bentleys, all new Mercedes and BMWs due to these reasons. I think North Cyprus is ahead of every country right now in regards to Crypto Currency, because people can walk into Nike, Tommy hilfiger, Car dealership or even buy properties in Crypto. If you would like more details you can message me privately.

and also another thing that the North Cyprus Side does not report anything to any country because its unrecognised, locals even work with the Nigerians to facilitate black money. It seems like North Cyprus has been designed for this. Many UK expats hide out here too.

 

[kkein]

Hello, if you want to solely live on Crypto in a country that is quite safe and living standards are pretty good i can suggest North Cyprus. Cyprus is an island in the Mediterranean sea. There is a border in the middle of the island, its split between the Turks and the Greeks. So the north side the Turkish Side and south side is the Greek side. North Side of the island is not recognized as a country, only by Turkey. So thats why there are many casinos, offshore accounts can be made and a lot of Crypto exchange offices everywhere. There are now many Nigerian Scammers living out here, driving around in Bentleys, all new Mercedes and BMWs due to these reasons. I think North Cyprus is ahead of every country right now in regards to Crypto Currency, because people can walk into Nike, Tommy hilfiger, Car dealership or even buy properties in Crypto. If you would like more details you can message me privately.


and also another thing that the North Cyprus Side does not report anything to any country because its unrecognised, locals even work with the Nigerians to facilitate black money. It seems like North Cyprus has been designed for this. Many UK expats hide out here too.

Kinda sounds like they are asking to be axed and be forcibly reunited to south cyprus. I doubt the international community will tolerate nigerian scammers in north cyprus much longer. And since it's only turkey and maybe qatar supporting it...