A new name and surname with obtaining Turkish citizenship through investment

[daniels27]

Still many countries do not require that for naturalisation. Notable exceptions are the paid citizenships, which have much more scrunity screening including army reports etc.

Such as?

Most European countries, most South American countries. Canada:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigratio...bsection-5-1-adults-18-years-older.html#Step3
https://stadt.muenchen.de/service/info/hauptabteilung-ii-buergerangelegenheiten/1080548/
https://www.sem.admin.ch/dam/sem/de.../ee-liste-unterlagen-art21-abs1-schweiz-d.pdf

The list is long.

 

[Compliance Circle]

it's an appealing option
weak spots I can see:
* sooner or later it will be an EU passport which is unwanted for some

Whoa, whoa. If Erdogan is dreaming about something sometimes, it doesn't mean it will ever happen. No pricking way they're going to be in the EU ever. Just a "Eurodream".

* it's a general problem (but in countries like Turkey especially) you never know what obligations may be connected with that citizenship in future - e.g. military service

But in the countries like Turkey, especially if you have 400 k for initial investment, you'd be able to find ways and means to be last in the row, if you know what I'm talking about.

Just don't keep any money apart from amounts needed to maintain property and parts of local lifestyle inside the country.

* Turkey (and its citizens) can get sanctioned easily in future for many reasons by many important countries

Can happen. But no serious sanctions as of yet, thanks to Erdogan being a chameleon and Turkey being part of NATO. In any case, if you pre-plan accordingly, you can "become" a "part" of large global Turkish diaspora somewhere in the EU or elsewhere.

* their currency is collapsing faster then others and it will cause social and political instability and threaten your investment

Yes. That's actually the main problem right now for this CBI program perspectives.

 

[alain]

Such as?

So far I have not been requested by any EMI, property trade or other stuff I have bought not even on a loan I took - never asked for a births certificate. The only time I have been asked was when I wanted to relocate for short to Germany and when I got married, otherwise never.

 

[daniels27]

So far I have not been requested by any EMI, property trade or other stuff I have bought not even on a loan I took - never asked for a births certificate. The only time I have been asked was when I wanted to relocate for short to Germany and when I got married, otherwise never.

He is talking about the time when you get naturalised. But as I wrote the birth certificate is most often only needed in a limited number of cases. US naturalisation being one of them. Some visas reqiure it etc.

 

[sebastian]

It's worth looking into Turkey also as an good destination for holidays if you don't want to live there but only get the second passport.

 

[void]

But in the countries like Turkey, especially if you have 400 k for initial investment, you'd be able to find ways and means to be last in the row, if you know what I'm talking about.

perhaps, but I don't like it, not sure it's worth and it's still something to be seriously considered before I do this to my kids and "make them Turks"

 

[PinkCat]

I got confirmation by turkish law firm that you indeed choose your own name during the process. If it is somehow linked to your old one, or you have place of birth in the passport I don't know yet, if someone does, please chime in.

However this with the military service is concerning. If you have dual passports do they still enforce this? If you leave abroad do they still bother you about this?

Other than that we can soon head to the turkish property finder site and start looking at real estate
Also I like adana kebab so that's a plus.

 

[Meta]

I got second Turkish citizenship by investment so I will touch on a few questions asked earlier.
1) Yes, you can change your name. (I haven't done that though)
2) Place of birth will be present in your passport in "City/Country" format
3) It took me a bit less than a year until I got the passport. Pretty typical. Not 3 months for sure. BTW, the "printing passport" step was about a month itself, citizenship approved earlier
4) Military service for children maybe (there are some exceptions, don't know details) but not for yourself
5) Currency is collapsing indeed. Don't expect to rent out property for decent returns, Turkish lira is plummeting and you are legally not allowed to index rent fast enough.
6) They didn't ask me for source of funds. I paid via crypto broker actually, think "real estate company receiving large USD transfer from random guy from Singapore". It was some time ago, things were changing.

A few more important remarks.
1) Very difficult to find reliable services. Real estate agents are trying to rack up prices, lawyers have no idea of laws, fixers take money and disappear. Rampant. Bad. Really bad. I basically can hardly do anything in the country as there are almost no good service providers.
2) Don't buy offplan properties, I know people without money, property, citizenship.
3) Real estate is not a good investment. I'm a member of a small private chat of new naturalized Turkish citizens. There was 1 guy getting some proper returns and 50 of us who are not happy.
4) I must emphasize. REALLY BAD SERVICES. I had (upper tier, established) lawyers taking prepayment and ghosting me until I show up in person. I had numerous mistakes in all documents. Real estate agents sending an offer for a unit which I find online in two minutes but $20K cheaper. Et cetera. Very inconvenient.
5) Local banks are bad, even bank cards have problems outside of Turkey sometimes.
6) There is a government address registration system. You need to declare where you live. If you register a Turkish address you become a tax resident (yes, taxing worldwide income). If you don't then government offices and banks don't want to do anything for you.

Overall I'm not a fan. If you have a real need for another passport then sure go for it. It works. If it's "to have just in case", it was not a pleasant experience honestly.

Hope it helps, ready to answer your questions.

 

[PinkCat]

@Meta No further questions, just want to thank you immensely for the detailed and to the point review! Saved me a lot of headache! That's why I like this forum!

 

[void]

I got second Turkish citizenship by investment so I will touch on a few questions asked earlier.
1) Yes, you can change your name. (I haven't done that though)
2) Place of birth will be present in your passport in "City/Country" format
3) It took me a bit less than a year until I got the passport. Pretty typical. Not 3 months for sure. BTW, the "printing passport" step was about a month itself, citizenship approved earlier
4) Military service for children maybe (there are some exceptions, don't know details) but not for yourself
5) Currency is collapsing indeed. Don't expect to rent out property for decent returns, Turkish lira is plummeting and you are legally not allowed to index rent fast enough.
6) They didn't ask me for source of funds. I paid via crypto broker actually, think "real estate company receiving large USD transfer from random guy from Singapore". It was some time ago, things were changing.

A few more important remarks.
1) Very difficult to find reliable services. Real estate agents are trying to rack up prices, lawyers have no idea of laws, fixers take money and disappear. Rampant. Bad. Really bad. I basically can hardly do anything in the country as there are almost no good service providers.
2) Don't buy offplan properties, I know people without money, property, citizenship.
3) Real estate is not a good investment. I'm a member of a small private chat of new naturalized Turkish citizens. There was 1 guy getting some proper returns and 50 of us who are not happy.
4) I must emphasize. REALLY BAD SERVICES. I had (upper tier, established) lawyers taking prepayment and ghosting me until I show up in person. I had numerous mistakes in all documents. Real estate agents sending an offer for a unit which I find online in two minutes but $20K cheaper. Et cetera. Very inconvenient.
5) Local banks are bad, even bank cards have problems outside of Turkey sometimes.
6) There is a government address registration system. You need to declare where you live. If you register a Turkish address you become a tax resident (yes, taxing worldwide income). If you don't then government offices and banks don't want to do anything for you.

Overall I'm not a fan. If you have a real need for another passport then sure go for it. It works. If it's "to have just in case", it was not a pleasant experience honestly.

Hope it helps, ready to answer your questions.

thanks for your time and review

 

[aniglo22]

And enjoy explaining why your birth certificate shows a different name

You get a İSİM DENKLİK BELGİSİ "Name Equivalence Certificate" .
" it shows the name and previous surname information before gaining Turkish citizenship "

Source: https://www.nvi.gov.tr/isim-denklik-belgesi

 

[LFGC]

it's an appealing option
weak spots I can see:
* sooner or later it will be an EU passport which is unwanted for some
* it's a general problem (but in countries like Turkey especially) you never know what obligations may be connected with that citizenship in future - e.g. military service
* Turkey (and its citizens) can get sanctioned easily in future for many reasons by many important countries
* their currency is collapsing faster then others and it will cause social and political instability and threaten your investment

Almost all of your points are false. Firstly, Turkey is unlikely to become an EU member. The US's carefully curated wars around Europe, particularly Syria, which was to prevent Turkey from joining the EU almost guarantee this is not set to happen. Turkey's membership to BRICS also makes this less likely. There are many other reasons that are tied to Turkish sovereignty that make EU membership less likely.

As for military service, dual nationals are exempt, as are usually those that cannot speak Turkish. Furthermore, Turkey has one of the largest armies in the world and has no need to burden foreigners with dual citizenship to join the army. Lastly, Turkey allows to pay to exempt one-self from military service. This has been available since the Ottoman Empire.

Sanctions are not country wide, but usually only affect the political and business elite. It would not make much of a difference to someone with dual citizenship anyway. It is also unlikely, Turkey is a key country for the US, NATO. Both organizations will have an outsized tolerance for Turkish cooperation with BRICS nations as they stand to loose more if Turkey fully embraces a non-Western political and economic stance.

The last point couldn't be more of a farce. Turkey has seen some of the largest economic growth in its history. Inflation is not black and white. It has not resulted in any real change of quality of life for Turks, short of the ability to travel internationally and acquire luxury goods, most of which the average person in any country including the US cannot afford readily. Turkey's economy is very sound and is seeing monumental growth in almost all sectors. All countries world wide are undergoing inflationary economic expansion and domestic political and economic focus. Turkey is no different.

 

[void]

As for military service, dual nationals are exempt, as are usually those that cannot speak Turkish. Furthermore, Turkey has one of the largest armies in the world and has no need to burden foreigners with dual citizenship to join the army. Lastly, Turkey allows to pay to exempt one-self from military service. This has been available since the Ottoman Empire.

if true then it's a good thing however Turkish law firm says something else (can be wrong though...)

I have no comment on the rest

 

[aniglo22]

Almost all of your points are false. Firstly, Turkey is unlikely to become an EU member. The US's carefully curated wars around Europe, particularly Syria, which was to prevent Turkey from joining the EU almost guarantee this is not set to happen. Turkey's membership to BRICS also makes this less likely. There are many other reasons that are tied to Turkish sovereignty that make EU membership less likely.

As for military service, dual nationals are exempt, as are usually those that cannot speak Turkish. Furthermore, Turkey has one of the largest armies in the world and has no need to burden foreigners with dual citizenship to join the army. Lastly, Turkey allows to pay to exempt one-self from military service. This has been available since the Ottoman Empire.

Sanctions are not country wide, but usually only affect the political and business elite. It would not make much of a difference to someone with dual citizenship anyway. It is also unlikely, Turkey is a key country for the US, NATO. Both organizations will have an outsized tolerance for Turkish cooperation with BRICS nations as they stand to loose more if Turkey fully embraces a non-Western political and economic stance.

The last point couldn't be more of a farce. Turkey has seen some of the largest economic growth in its history. Inflation is not black and white. It has not resulted in any real change of quality of life for Turks, short of the ability to travel internationally and acquire luxury goods, most of which the average person in any country including the US cannot afford readily. Turkey's economy is very sound and is seeing monumental growth in almost all sectors. All countries world wide are undergoing inflationary economic expansion and domestic political and economic focus. Turkey is no different.

I have the suspicion that you might be from Turkey or of Turkish descent, which heavily influences your perspective . Stop sugar coating everything , it had just average growth comparing to the average developing/emerging countries . It has the highest 2nd child poverty rate in the OECD .
You have territorial disputes in Syria ,Cyprus, Greece and Iraq and are threatening bi-weekly to wage some "special operation" against the Kurds . Significant decrease in manufacturing especially in the "High-End" sector and high unemployment rate especially youth .
It will be a miracle if they can make a economic rebound without an recession .

 

[Nigital Domad]

All great info! So I think the new Anonymity questions on everyone's minds are:

1) Is there a nation(s) where you can still change your name during the CBI process?

2) Is there any passport out there that won't list your birth city/nation?

 

[LFGC]

developing

I have the suspicion that you might be from Turkey or of Turkish descent, which heavily influences your perspective . Stop sugar coating everything , it had just average growth comparing to the average developing/emerging countries . It has the highest 2nd child poverty rate in the OECD .
You have territorial disputes in Syria ,Cyprus, Greece and Iraq and are threatening bi-weekly to wage some "special operation" against the Kurds . Significant decrease in manufacturing especially in the "High-End" sector and high unemployment rate especially youth .
It will be a miracle if they can make a economic rebound without an recession .

Wrong assumption, I am neither Turkish, nor of Turkish descent. It is not my perspective, but fact, backed by data. Nearly everything you said is wholly untrue, you made up a bunch of numbers. It seems as though you're from a country with a historical disdain for Turkey and thus have highly biased views, or are simply ignorant.

The Kurdish problem you so speak of is minimal at this point, the last decade has led to an almost complete eradication of the threat on Turkey's borders. A threat created purposefully by the US, Israel, and it's allies that fund YPG, PKK, which they also oddly consider terrorist organizations, to weaken Turkey. An age old tactic of all large powers to hold on to their hegemony and prevent other key players, Turkey in this case, from gaining any. The other territorial disputes are irrelevant and will result in absolutely no action.

Child Poverty, Turkey barely ranks slightly above the US, Western European, and other developed countries. According to the OECD the US has the most extreme poverty of 30+ member states.
Source:
1) https://www.statista.com/statistics/264424/child-poverty-in-oecd-countries/
2) https://confrontingpoverty.org/poverty-facts-and-myths/americas-poor-are-worse-off-than-elsewhere/

GDP growth, Turkey out performed most developed countries in real GDP, not nominal GDP growth.
Source: https://data.worldbank.org/country/turkiye?most_recent_value_desc=true

Bank Capital to Asset Ratio, a statistic you've likely never heard of, and arguably one of the most import shows that Turkey's banking sector is sound.
source: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/FB.BNK.CAPA.ZS?view=chart

Industrial Output, as you can see it is still growing while % of GDP is decreasing.
source: https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/TUR/turkey/manufacturing-output

Neary every economic indicator shows growth, there maybe temporary pain, but the future is very bright for Turkey. I haven't even touched on the strides Turkey has made in its indigenous defense industry particularly drones, aircraft, and indiginous weapons platforms, second to only US and China in many regards. This creates significant economic potential due to exports, political cooperation as weapons sales are tied to politics, and deterrence against military action against Turkey. Turkey along with the UAE, Isreal, and Russia have also been very active in Africa, a strategic move that will too result in future benefit.

 

[LFGC]

if true then it's a good thing however Turkish law firm says something else (can be wrong though...)

I have no comment on the rest

A simple Google search yields up to date information on military service in Turkey. It should absolutely not be considered when acquiring Turkish citizenship as it is easily avoided or not applicable at all. https://www.imtilak.net/en/turkey/articles/military-service-turkey-postponement-allowance

 

[aniglo22]

Wrong assumption, I am neither Turkish, nor of Turkish descent. It is not my perspective, but fact, backed by data. Nearly everything you said is wholly untrue, you made up a bunch of numbers. It seems as though you're from a country with a historical disdain for Turkey and thus have highly biased views, or are simply ignorant.

The Kurdish problem you so speak of is minimal at this point, the last decade has led to an almost complete eradication of the threat on Turkey's borders. A threat created purposefully by the US, Israel, and it's allies that fund YPG, PKK, which they also oddly consider terrorist organizations, to weaken Turkey. An age old tactic of all large powers to hold on to their hegemony and prevent other key players, Turkey in this case, from gaining any. The other territorial disputes are irrelevant and will result in absolutely no action.

Child Poverty, Turkey barely ranks slightly above the US, Western European, and other developed countries. According to the OECD the US has the most extreme poverty of 30+ member states.
Source:
1) https://www.statista.com/statistics/264424/child-poverty-in-oecd-countries/
2) https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...4QFnoECBoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw14x_5UWR7xl4BNE9alKlgq

GDP growth, Turkey out performed most developed countries in real GDP, not nominal GDP growth.
Source: https://data.worldbank.org/country/turkiye?most_recent_value_desc=true

Bank Capital to Asset Ratio, a statistic you've likely never heard of, and arguably one of the most import shows that Turkey's banking sector is sound.
source: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/FB.BNK.CAPA.ZS?view=chart

Industrial Output, as you can see it is still growing while % of GDP is decreasing.
source: https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/TUR/turkey/manufacturing-output

Neary every economic indicator shows growth, there maybe temporary pain, but the future is very bright for Turkey. I haven't even touched on the strides Turkey has made in its indigenous defense industry particularly drones, aircraft, and indiginous weapons platforms, second to only US and China in many regards. This creates significant economic potential due to exports, political cooperation as weapons sales are tied to politics, and deterrence against military action against Turkey.

Child Poverty : https://www.turkiyetoday.com/turkiye/turkiye-ranks-2nd-worst-in-oecd-for-child-poverty-58031/
You are citing stuff from "Source: OECD Data, 2019." .........
GDP Growth : Besides the peak in 2021 in covid recovery it was pretty average

Bank Capital to Asset Ratio :
A high Bank Capital to Asset Ratio in Turkey's case is actually a reaction to the systemic risks, not a sign of banking sector soundness. :

1. Reasons :

• High macroeconomic volatility
• Currency fluctuations
• Inflation risks
• Political uncertainties

The ratio is high because banks are forced to maintain larger buffers against these systemic risks.
It's the symptom volatility/instability , not a healthy banking system.
Industrial output :
https://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/industrial-activity-remains-weak-jobless-rate-stable-202480

Source: https://data.tuik.gov.tr/Bulten/Index?p=Industrial-Production-Index-September-2024-53778
And especially with Trump as president elect, his tariff policy could severely impact Turkey's economy, as the U.S. is its second-largest export market.

The Kurdish problem you so speak of is minimal at this point, the last decade has led to an almost complete eradication of the threat on Turkey's borders.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...k-defence-firm-hq-ankara-kurdish-militant-pkk
https://www.intellinews.com/turkey-...ty-to-attack-us-allied-kurds-in-syria-352752/
Doesn't seem to me like a "minimal" problem .

 

[Revoltec]

To get back to the topic, isn't a changed name just another problem for transactions and future proof of SoF?

 

[LFGC]

Child Poverty : https://www.turkiyetoday.com/turkiye/turkiye-ranks-2nd-worst-in-oecd-for-child-poverty-58031/
You are citing stuff from "Source: OECD Data, 2019." .........
GDP Growth : Besides the peak in 2021 in covid recovery it was pretty average
View attachment 8210
Bank Capital to Asset Ratio :
A high Bank Capital to Asset Ratio in Turkey's case is actually a reaction to the systemic risks, not a sign of banking sector soundness. :

1. Reasons :

• High macroeconomic volatility
• Currency fluctuations
• Inflation risks
• Political uncertainties

The ratio is high because banks are forced to maintain larger buffers against these systemic risks.
It's the symptom volatility/instability , not a healthy banking system.
Industrial output :
https://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/industrial-activity-remains-weak-jobless-rate-stable-202480
View attachment 8211
Source: https://data.tuik.gov.tr/Bulten/Index?p=Industrial-Production-Index-September-2024-53778
And especially with Trump as president elect, his tariff policy could severely impact Turkey's economy, as the U.S. is its second-largest export market.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...k-defence-firm-hq-ankara-kurdish-militant-pkk
https://www.intellinews.com/turkey-...ty-to-attack-us-allied-kurds-in-syria-352752/
Doesn't seem to me like a "minimal" problem .

Child Poverty, You forgot to add that the figures of child poverty in Turkey are correlated directly to the migrant crisis, achieved by US wars around Turkey. Turkey has one of the world's largest populations of migrants. It is officially 5.xM but unofficially believed to be far higher and around 7.xM. Majority of child poverty is in the South East as well, which has the highest migrant populations. The rest of Turkey is vastly different, similarly to any large country, including the US, which has the most extreme poverty out of the OECD and happens to also be the wealthiest country on earth on paper. It is all but unbelievable to most that 16.x% of the state of New York lives under the poverty line, yet NYC which is in NYS, is one of the worlds largest free standing economies numbering into the trillions.

Bank to Capital Ratio, Turkey's CAR rate is 8.2% compared to US's 8.5%. This shows Turkish banks have enough funds available to handle a reasonable amount of losses and prevent insolvency and the assets Turkish banks hold are of low risk.

Industrial Production, these are normal fluctuations, not indicative of any systemic problem. There is still a net increase in exports when looking at all sectors. Sector specific fluctuations are based on many factors. As for Trump, it is highly unlikely he will be proceeding with any of the idiotic policies that were nothing more than blather to his ignorant followers. He has hired a roster of mostly democrat and will follow in lock step with the previous administration in continuing the policies of the Biden administration; CHIPS act, Build Back better Program, and the Green Initiative. Furthermore, such tariffs would push Turkey further into the hands of BRICS and other other non-western nations, putting an even greater strain on the US and the USD dominance.

Kurds, very minimal, it of course an issue, an artificial one created by the US, but it is quite contained. Not to mention Turkey's dominance in the region plus Africa outsizes the problem significantly.