Our valued sponsor

Crypto high 6 fig with no source of funds no tax returns looking to offramp

M

MrTambourineBTC

Pro Member
Jan 15, 2022
74
30
43
France
#1
Register now
You must login or register to view hidden content on this page.
Hello!

I have high 650k in crypto looking to eventually offramp to bank and more traditional investments. Eventually but a house in Spain.

My initial source of funds came from recieving payments in crypto from poker winnings (prof poker player for 15 years) from 2017-2020. No receipts. Played on Chinese apps and the guy paid me on Sundays via BTC and later on usdt.

That was just a few k, my portfolio was 30k at the end of 2020 and made up to 650k in these 4 years in crypto (trading, farming, airdrops, all over defi...).

I never paid taxes on the money, not on my poker days, not on crypto days.

I want to start paying in 2025 and eventually be able to legalize my money and move to tradfi, buy a house etc.

I only consider Spain and Portugal.

I have 50k of legal, banked money.

What would you suggest I do?

I don't have rush, can be patient to start generating tax reports, etc. And eventually be able to comply more with banks to be able to offramp. I could see myself being low-mid 7 fig in a few years.

I'm trying to decide my strat for the next few years, so I'm all open for advice and suggestions.

Thank you very much!
 
  • Like
Reactions: vehzag, EliasIT, bizman and 3 others
#3
#5
Perhaps I wasn't stressing enough my main concern is being able to eventually offramp. (Portuguese tax man is not a concern plus some tax benefits for crypto. Spanish if you start to file tax slowly on the A money shouldn't be a big concern if I don't do anything stupid. I could potentially go somewhere else in a 3-4 years.)

I was thinking of depositing my 50k of taxed money in binance/kraken and from there for a few years build credible tax reports with legit source of funds while growing the portfolio agai,

And hopefully/eventually find a legit way to add to my A portfolio funds from the other portfolio in a sensible manner. That's just the option that makes the most sense for now but I'm sure I'm missing many other good possibilities.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hofo
#6
1. If you are willing to pay PIT on the money, you can find someone you can invoice (send him crypto), and he will pay you in fiat.

2. Find countries Spain has DTA with + buying real estate in crypto without questions is possible (the one I know is Py, but probably Dubai, and guys here will tell you more Georgia?). Add a layer by not having real estate in your name but in the company you created in the respective country. Have residency in the country (so in the company info is not your Spanish address). Rental income stream to ES and pay dividends tax (reduced under DTA). Buy smaller units (ideally, start with something worth 50k, which you have legal) - The company layer should help here a little; in the case, Hacienda would do a deep dive and ask how you created such a prosperous business. Starting a company and instantly having assets worth 600k would look bad.

//Edit. Of course, at some point sell the units, and dividends pay yourself to ES and pay dividends tax.

Most likely, some other guys will give you better solutions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: vehzag and hofo
#9
NewHorizonsParaguay said:
1. If you are willing to pay PIT on the money, you can find someone you can invoice (send him crypto), and he will pay you in fiat.

2. Find countries Spain has DTA with + buying real estate in crypto without questions is possible (the one I know is Py, but probably Dubai, and guys here will tell you more Georgia?). Add a layer by not having real estate in your name but in the company you created in the respective country. Have residency in the country (so in the company info is not your Spanish address). Rental income stream to ES and pay dividends tax (reduced under DTA). Buy smaller units (ideally, start with something worth 50k, which you have legal) - The company layer should help here a little; in the case, Hacienda would do a deep dive and ask how you created such a prosperous business. Starting a company and instantly having assets worth 600k would look bad.

//Edit. Of course, at some point sell the units, and dividends pay yourself to ES and pay dividends tax.

Most likely, some other guys will give you better solutions.
Click to expand...
I think the first option is relatively straightforward and comes with some added advantages especially in Portugal.

I was thinking something along those lines:

Buy crypto with the 50k in a legit way. Trade, operate in defi...and make it grow. Allegedly, crypto trading activities only get taxed on 15% of your profit (heard from 2 different sources, but would need to confirm). That's max 7.5% tax. Would need to be self employed and pay more taxes or public health care I suppose.

In the meantime, something like you propose, I was thinking of paying myself a salary with crypto. Nothing too big, 2k a month let's say. Would need to find a way to obfuscate somehow or make it credible so that's my job. Pay tax on it. Keep adding it all to my legal crypto portfolio.

Then at some point, let's say when I have grown those 50k plus salaries for 2-3 years to hopefully 500k+, can leave in BTC if at cheap prices or stablecoins for a year without touching it and get it all tax free.

It would make sense, be perfectly legal (except the fake job haha) and woulve created a credible legal source of funds for the banks.

Of course legislation can change in those years, and Portugal has some exit tax, so there is some risk,gotta make sure the 0% for long term holding will be kept (Germany has it also, can't see why they can't keep it).


Could do the same from Spain, but I like the spanish tax man much less (the Portuguese tax man doesn't know/doesn't care really lol and even if you screw up, they don't turn your life into a nightmare).
 
  • Like
Reactions: brianK
#10
NewHorizonsParaguay said:
1. If you are willing to pay PIT on the money, you can find someone you can invoice (send him crypto), and he will pay you in fiat.

2. Find countries Spain has DTA with + buying real estate in crypto without questions is possible (the one I know is Py, but probably Dubai, and guys here will tell you more Georgia?). Add a layer by not having real estate in your name but in the company you created in the respective country. Have residency in the country (so in the company info is not your Spanish address). Rental income stream to ES and pay dividends tax (reduced under DTA). Buy smaller units (ideally, start with something worth 50k, which you have legal) - The company layer should help here a little; in the case, Hacienda would do a deep dive and ask how you created such a prosperous business. Starting a company and instantly having assets worth 600k would look bad.

//Edit. Of course, at some point sell the units, and dividends pay yourself to ES and pay dividends tax.

Most likely, some other guys will give you better solutions.
Click to expand...
In the second option, yeah the problem like you mention is all over Europe is very difficult to buy RE with crypto, you need to go through banks...

Other possibility for Spain would be to sell my house, and with the money buy a nice beachfront land and build my own house paid with cash. In Spain it's very typical to pay construction workers/materials with cash and it's relatively easy and safe to get cash for crypto if you have good contacts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: vehzag
#12
Yes, the point in the responses you’ve received so far is that you gradually convert your crypto into FIAT by buying and selling things, starting small and eventually moving to something bigger, such as buying a house or similar. Without proof of Source of Funds (SoF), you cannot simply sell such large amounts and then purchase a house; your funds will be confiscated immediately.
 
#13
What daniels27 suggested could work quite well if you take your time and do things properly.

The only weak link are exchanges who might hit you with a source of crypto request, in that case you need to make sure you have a believable story on-chain as well. (This varies on a case by case basis so it’s hard to give a specific advice)

I’d probably try and keep everything p2p and avoid exchanges, 600k isn’t a lot of money, especially if you have time and don’t need to do everything within 6 months.
 
#14
For that kind of amount (which isn’t very large), the simplest way to offramp is through an OTC desk. I own a couple, so feel free to reach out if you need help. You could declare the wallet as owned by your US LLC or set up a blocker entity—although, in my experience advising Spanish citizens, the Agencia Tributaria rarely targets LLCs in practice.

You can approach it in two main steps:
  1. Offramp the crypto into fiat in the LLC.
  2. Make an ampliación de capital (capital increase) in a Spanish Sociedad Limitada, or arrange a préstamo participative convertible (convertible loan) with a power of attorney (POA) from the LLC.
You own the LLC, but it can also be many friends. In any case, you or someone with the POA decides whether to list yourself in the UBO declaration in the Spanish notary (Acta de titularidad real), or simply state there’s no single party with more than 25% ownership—your call. Now the funds are in the Spanish company’s bank account, and you can buy real estate, ask for a mortgage of up to 60-70% with no extra warranties, or anything else you need, and even deduct the IVA on any improvements/renovations. No taxes on your crypto.

I’ve done this multiple times with different clients for the past 10 years or so, and it’s always worked smoothly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NativeLogos, Cavendish and wellington
#16
hofo said:
some people appreciate relations.
Click to expand...
They must not be much valuable if they deteriorate due to physical distance. Unless you have relations with some large trees (but I assure you large trees will be fine without you).
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: Revoltec, DarkRevoMan and kislokan
#20
daniels27 said:
Yes, but some trend to escape and run back "home"
Click to expand...
If you move to the next block and it sucks and have no patience yes. Same as humans.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EliasIT
Register now
You must login or register to view hidden content on this page.
You must log in or register to reply here.
The Kingdom Bank

Forum Announcement

Latest Threads

Offshore Bank Accounts
Top Bottom
Back