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Do you still trust Proton Mail ? ? ?

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@wellington : A nice and interesting story, thanks for sharing!
years ago, a decade+ I was involved in a secure email service - namely ZK based.
Do you mean “HK” or “UK” here? (On a QWERTZ keyboard, all these letters are close :) )

BTW, I presume that the service you are mentioning does not exist now – would you mind sharing, just roughly, what was the reason for the termination?


I still have it backed up (backend/frontend) somewhere
Keep it well ;)
 
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@wellington : A nice and interesting story, thanks for sharing!

Do you mean “HK” or “UK” here? (On a QWERTZ keyboard, all these letters are close :) )

BTW, I presume that the service you are mentioning does not exist now – would you mind sharing, just roughly, what was the reason for the termination?



Keep it well ;)
Believe hes referring to Zero-Knowledge (encryption)
 
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Do you mean “HK” or “UK” here? (On a QWERTZ keyboard, all these letters are close :) )

BTW, I presume that the service you are mentioning does not exist now – would you mind sharing, just roughly, what was the reason for the termination?
First started putting together whilst in the UK briefly, built out whilst in Switzerland and then moved to HK (Corporate).

No, with all the adverse noise (years-years ago) towards privacy, even though it was never commercialised i didn't feel comfortable (think it was around the time of terror attacks in Europe) if something i created / owned / operated was used nefariously.

I see the need for it, but also recognised the potential negative societal impact and personal loss of liberty if it was used by such actors.
 
Yes of course jurisdiction matters, but what was implied that there is a general KYC/AML requirement to do so which is not true.

Yes, there is general KYC/AML requirement or a provider isn't operating within legal framework. Whether KYC is triggered by AML or IaaS regulations isn't relevant.

Altering statements and concluding post factum is not something that has merit in discussion.
 
Yes, there is general KYC/AML requirement or a provider isn't operating within legal framework. Whether KYC is triggered by AML or IaaS regulations isn't relevant.

Altering statements and concluding post factum is not something that has merit in discussion.
1. This conversation ended a week ago
2. Staff has decided that noone is allowed to call you out
3. There isn't an international requirement to log no matter how many times you say it.
 
1. This conversation ended a week ago
2. Staff has decided only you are allowed to instigate, but no there isn't an international requirement to log no matter how many times you say it.
Might have missed something, KYC / AML for what?

Protonmail? -> Obviously not, transactions under a certain threshold don't require AML, and KYC isn't a legal requirement in any jurisdiction for email/communication service the last time i was involved in it.

It is however encouraged for obvious reasons (Anti-Terrorism) which is used as a catch-all used for mass surveillance for crime, tax evasion etc.

As for VPN's no one really knows, whether they log, i read some court transcripts where at least one provider definitively is logging, and suspect it goes down to individual service providers regardless of claims.
 
Might have missed something, KYC / AML for what?

Protonmail? -> Obviously not, transactions under a certain threshold don't require AML, and KYC isn't a legal requirement in any jurisdiction for email/communication service the last time i was involved in it.

It is however encouraged for obvious reasons (Anti-Terrorism) which is used as a catch-all used for mass surveillance for crime, tax evasion etc.
Well thats what I'm saying, there is none but apparently thats controversial to say.
 
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For when the state has an entry the last thing you want is their foot on your throat, and even if it comes out in court that you are logging your company name will be addressed as 'VPN Service Provider 1' etc, and the perps going to prison so he ain't talking and even if he does when he gets out you'd have either sold the company, or he is now a con and the last thing he's gonna talk about is a VPN and even if he does who will listen to a crimb.

Well thats what I'm saying, there is none but apparently thats controversial to say.
Oh yes, i see on Aseannow.com recently a mass push for state surveillance and money laundering lol the plebs are like sheep these days.
 
1. This conversation ended a week ago
2. Staff has decided that noone is allowed to call you out
3. There isn't an international requirement to log no matter how many times you say it.

This is becoming rather interesting. Mr, I don't need anybody to decide that I should not be called out. You're not polite and you are quite provocative. Mind your business and don't comment things perfidiously. What you are doing here is your responsivility. Yes, the discussion ended. Though, not in a way you think or state.

Might have missed something, KYC / AML for what?

Protonmail? -> Obviously not, transactions under a certain threshold don't require AML, and KYC isn't a legal requirement in any jurisdiction for email/communication service the last time i was involved in it.

It is however encouraged for obvious reasons (Anti-Terrorism) which is used as a catch-all used for mass surveillance for crime, tax evasion etc.

As for VPN's no one really knows, whether they log, i read some court transcripts where at least one provider definitively is logging, and suspect it goes down to individual service providers regardless of claims.

I don't know if anything is missed.
 
Moving on... the only people that need surveillance as shown during covid is Government Ministers.

If a Western nation extends their surveillance for mere subscription(s) and the like, only a fool would remain in such a nation, for that my friend is authoritarianism .

It's fascism. Not fool(s) but people without scrupules and a weak ones would remain in such societies.
 
Last time I read or watched news, right wing parties across EU gained foothold, the last one just now


Whether it's authoritarianism, fascism or totalitarianism, it's political extremism. And Europe will probably have all forms of it.
Sure on a national level things are turning right, but ultimately its EU that has a say and I wouldn't consider them right wing at all.
 
Sure on a national level things are turning right, but ultimately its EU that has a say and I wouldn't consider them right wing at all.

EU is supra-national organization. I do not consider it more influential then any particular EU member nation state. Non papers are created in national capitals and formal decisions in Strasbourg and Brussels.

I see conflicting views about EU across OCT; that it's either omni-powerfull - EUSSR or subjugated to US.

From political history a conclusion can be derived about similar forms of societal control exerted by different political extremists.

We are members of a society. I sincerely believe that civil rights and liberties must not be downgraded non-ethically, illegally and perfidiously thru AML controls and other fear inducing naratives. Having said that I also believe that functional and effective governments must exist.

Proper corporate structuring, tax optimizations, access to financial institutions and doing international business should not be by default suspicious. But, let's be honest - majority of people - here at OCT as well - want zero tax liability and are angry when taxmen come for their share.

It's up to people not to accept those extreme governmental measures. I do not believe that elections and social participation in general aren't important and that there is some omni-potent force that controls and manages everything and everybody.
 
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Times a
EU is supra-national organization. I do not consider it more influential then any particular EU member nation state. Non papers are created in national capitals and formal decisions in Strasbourg and Brussels.

I see conflicting views about EU across OCT; that it's either omni-powerfull - EUSSR or subjugated to US.

From political history a conclusion can be derived about similar forms of societal control exerted by different political extremists.

We are members of a society. I sincerely believe that civil rights and liberties must not be downgraded non-ethically, illegally and perfidiously thru AML controls and other fear inducing naratives. Having said that I also believe that functional and effective governments must exist.

Proper corporate structuring, tax optimizations, access to financial institutions and doing international business should not be by default suspicious. But, let's be honest - majority of people - here at OCT as well - want zero tax liability and are angry when taxmen come for their share.

It's up to people not to accept those extreme governmental measures. I do not believe that elections and social participation in general aren't important and that there is some omni-potent force that controls and manages everything and everybody.
Times are changing ofcourse

Germany will become the sick man of Europe- France will become the dominant country - which means the EU falls in line or it breaks apart.

Breaking apart is the most probable outcome.

France (Friendly Allie but own interests), UK (US Vassal - shackled), Sweden (Naval) will be the ones that survive - whether they thrive or not comes down to whether they can rid themselves of surveillance/socialism/ etc

Just my view.

Switzerland the moment it decided to introduce sanctions against Russia tied itself firmly to Germany’s downfall also IMO and the US Fed basically bailed them out alongside internal bail in debasement which the Swiss voted against in 2018/19.

Monaco was all about extracting the wealthiest Europeans - but eventually it will be pulled into France as the Wealth of Europe passes not onwards but predominantly to the states.

For those that think Switzerland will not change or already hasn't, I put it from this perspective - I am or rather in the so called 1%, I wouldn’t put anything there (additional) and none of my circle would either and all my Swiss friends are pulling their wealth out of it.

Switzerland is firmly not needed by France and in the world we move to its luxury items sold to the masses won’t have demand because their client base are dying off creating a influx on the secondary markets - same with gold / silver jewelry as I mentioned on here months back - the moment gold shot up everyone and their grandma was trading in heirlooms for paper currency.

The East hoards gold, uses silver the West wears Prada, and live in disney land.

Case and Point, Switzerland was built on the idea of Privacy.

Yet its embracing surveillance : Swiss leaders plan to enforce global crypto reporting framework

The protections that Protonmail had being Swiss based is no longer a protection.

CARF Countries FYI - See Belize another previous privacy focused state (in context).: Armenia, Australia, Austria, Barbados, Belgium, Belize, Brazil, Bulgaria, Canada, Chile, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Korea, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Mexico, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Romania, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, and the United States of America; the Crown Dependencies of Guernsey, Jersey, and Isle of Man; and the United Kingdom’s Overseas Territories of the Cayman Islands and Gibraltar.
 
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Whilst thread topic is ProtonMail risks - certainly not merits - the matter is about technological standards, nominal Swiss regulations and international legal assistance, beside other non public international agreements.

@incognitbro presents nominal fact that ProtonMail - and other privacy declared providers - isn't logging metadata which @wellington accepts.

Without getting into polemics with @wellington, @Sols and @incognitbro, I would remind them and the OCT about one quite secret and long program that US and Germany had with certain Swiss vendors - Crypto AG being one of them


Proton AG and it's products are interesting but can be readily substituted with higher nominal and effective security margin.

Regarding @wellington comment, Switzerland was in this kind of political situation - differential neutrality - between 1919-1938 before absolute neutrality was declared again shortly before WWII.

Magistra vitae est.
 
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