Complete anonymity

[John89]

I am looking to keep my money in a bank with complete anonymity. I am not US citizen and reside in Europe. In another thread @azb1 kindly suggested I do some things, which I interpret as such (below). I have some questions and some doubts. So, what I should do:

1) I open an Offshore trust, for example in Panama (advantage: I think they are cheap and easy to set up)
2) I use the Trust to open a company elsewhere, maybe in Estonia (advantages: very low taxation, in EU, doesn't have a bad reputation).
3) The company opens the bank account where I put my money.
4) I can use an ATM anywhere in Europe to withdraw my money.

So far so good. But when I open the Estonian company someone needs to sign the papers, and when I open the bank account someone needs to sign the papers. So my name will still be around, right? The taxman can still come to see me.

What are your thoughts? Thank you!

 

[JohnLocke]

You will have a hard time to stay anonymous in 2021 with that setup. It is not possible, I mean, we speak Europe which soon will be in control of every human living there. Anonymity and privacy is something from the past, soon you can't do anything any longer here without a fingerprint and eye-scan.

What you are looking for does not exists any longer, sorry to say so.

 

[John89]

You will have a hard time to stay anonymous in 2021 with that setup. It is not possible, I mean, we speak Europe which soon will be in control of every human living there. Anonymity and privacy is something from the past, soon you can't do anything any longer here without a fingerprint and eye-scan.

What you are looking for does not exists any longer, sorry to say so.

You have a "like" button. You need to add a "don't like your reply" button

I think a trust in Panama gives you complete anonymity, but then I don't really trust a Panama bank with my life savings?

 

[Russky]

You have a "like" button. You need to add a "don't like your reply" button

I think a trust in Panama gives you complete anonymity, but then I don't really trust a Panama bank with my life savings?

From what I understand, you should create a private foundation in Panama. Now with that set up, you can set up a company in another country (with the foundation being the primary shareholder).
Then sign up for a bank for that company in another country.

 

[kyler565]

I am looking to keep my money in a bank with complete anonymity. I am not US citizen and reside in Europe. In another thread @azb1 kindly suggested I do some things, which I interpret as such (below). I have some questions and some doubts. So, what I should do:

1) I open an Offshore trust, for example in Panama (advantage: I think they are cheap and easy to set up)
2) I use the Trust to open a company elsewhere, maybe in Estonia (advantages: very low taxation, in EU, doesn't have a bad reputation).
3) The company opens the bank account where I put my money.
4) I can use an ATM anywhere in Europe to withdraw my money.

So far so good. But when I open the Estonian company someone needs to sign the papers, and when I open the bank account someone needs to sign the papers. So my name will still be around, right? The taxman can still come to see me.

What are your thoughts? Thank you!

Why not keep your money in a brokrage account im a Canadian and I dont trust the banks here fully. They have allot of exposure to overpriced houses at the peak of a housing bubble . I feel more comfortable keeping cashed parked in an IB account.

 

[Don]

I am looking to keep my money in a bank with complete anonymity. I am not US citizen and reside in Europe. In another thread @azb1 kindly suggested I do some things, which I interpret as such (below). I have some questions and some doubts. So, what I should do:

1) I open an Offshore trust, for example in Panama (advantage: I think they are cheap and easy to set up)
2) I use the Trust to open a company elsewhere, maybe in Estonia (advantages: very low taxation, in EU, doesn't have a bad reputation).
3) The company opens the bank account where I put my money.
4) I can use an ATM anywhere in Europe to withdraw my money.

So far so good. But when I open the Estonian company someone needs to sign the papers, and when I open the bank account someone needs to sign the papers. So my name will still be around, right? The taxman can still come to see me.

What are your thoughts? Thank you!

For just banking your assets, you can easily open a bank account for an Estonian general partnership. It is a separate legal entity and you could run it with close to zero compliance (no annual reports) and zero tax. Your name would still be visible on public records though. Feel free to reach out if you need an attorney to arrange this.

 

[Golden Fleece]

I like Panama. But privacy is now very expensive -- and doing it in a cheap way like using Panama as a jurisdiction, which has had data breaches, is not the way to do it. The place to do these things is in Switzerland and Liechtenstein, which have long histories as cultures that respect privacy and have serious criminal penalties for data theft. That costs serious money. Latin American cultures have no traditions of respecting privacy. Privacy still exists for those who are serious and truly willing to pay for it. In most cases, it is probably best just to stay compliant. If you are willing to leave your home country and its slave masters, you can find ways to pay 10% to 15% in total income taxes.

 

[Allisgood]

Leaks can happen anywhere. What about the Liechtenstein LGT Bank CD-ROM that was bought by German tax authorities from a LGT insider ? It exposed numerous German tax evaders. It was in 2008 but seems that people have already forgotten about it and think that Liechtenstein is super private, secure and discrete. Google 2008 Liechtenstein Tax Affair.

 

[Golden Fleece]

Leaks can happen anywhere. What about the Liechtenstein LGT Bank CD-ROM that was bought by German tax authorities from a LGT insider ? It exposed numerous German tax evaders. It was in 2008 but seems that people have already forgotten about it and think that Liechtenstein is super private, secure and discrete. Google 2008 Liechtenstein Tax Affair.

I remember that incident quite well. Like I said, true privacy is expensive. If you have enough money and want privacy, then you get a numbered bank account. Only a few people have access to your name, which is linked to your bank account number by a paper stored in a vault. With a numbered bank account data leaks are irrelevant. Only a few jurisdictions, which have a deep cultural respect for privacy, offer such solutions.

 

[Silvio]

The question is anonymity from whom - are you hiding from a potential debtor... or the government?
Keep in mind that the bank will just report you via CRS as the UBO regardless of how many trusts you put in your structure.

 

[Dorothy Atwater]

You have a "like" button. You need to add a "don't like your reply" button

I think a trust in Panama gives you complete anonymity, but then I don't really trust a Panama bank with my life savings?

Do NOT trust a Panama bank!

 

[Golden Fleece]

Do NOT trust a Panama bank!

An answer like that is not really useful unless you provide an explanation.

Do not trust them for privacy? Some people do not care about privacy from their government because they pay their taxes.

Do not trust them as a safe place for your money? Different banks have different leverage ratios and reserves.

Do not trust them because they are slow and inefficient? Some people have acclimated to the manana culture.

Something else?

 

[Dorothy Atwater]

I live in panama and I have a LOT of experience with banks here. I'm not going to waste my time with a lot of details...but the banks here are horrible and expensive. They also do not accept funds wired from the sale of previous metals, oil, etc. The criminals wire millions to and fro with no problem, but the honest people are penalized. But if you want to bank in panama, go right ahead. Just don't say you haven't been warned.

 

[Golden Fleece]

I live in panama and I have a LOT of experience with banks here. I'm not going to waste my time with a lot of details...but the banks here are horrible and expensive. They also do not accept funds wired from the sale of previous metals, oil, etc. The criminals wire millions to and fro with no problem, but the honest people are penalized. But if you want to bank in panama, go right ahead. Just don't say you haven't been warned.

I already know that Panama banks are horrible and expensive, but you said "Do NOT trust a Panama bank!" There is a huge difference between a bank that is horrible and expensive and a bank that will steal or lose your money.

 

[JohnLocke]

I remember that incident quite well. Like I said, true privacy is expensive. If you have enough money and want privacy, then you get a numbered bank account. Only a few people have access to your name, which is linked to your bank account number by a paper stored in a vault. With a numbered bank account data leaks are irrelevant. Only a few jurisdictions, which have a deep cultural respect for privacy, offer such solutions.

this sounds from something from the past! I know there were a few banks in Uruguay that offered real numbered accounts like the one known in the past in Switzerland. I thought all of it was gone.

So I know there are some special setups described in the mentor group forums which may be on the edge to be legal, don't know, but they look more promising.

 

[Golden Fleece]

this sounds from something from the past! I know there were a few banks in Uruguay that offered real numbered accounts like the one known in the past in Switzerland. I thought all of it was gone.

Swiss numbered accounts exist, but you should use them to protect yourself from data breaches and creditors rather than trying to avoid income tax. It is best to stay compliant.

In fact, numbered accounts are offered by many Swiss banks. Unlike standard bank accounts, numbered accounts are not attached to the name of an individual or entity, but to a number. This number is used in place of your name, and appears wherever your name would appear in transaction records.

However, numbered accounts are not anonymous accounts by any means. Swiss banks must accurately identify customers in keeping with know your customer (KYC) regulations. But instead of sharing your bank information with all third parties involved in transactions and with low-level employees, your name as the account holder is only known to select bank employees.

Numbered accounts are fully legal in Switzerland and the Swiss banking system is set up to manage transactions between Swiss numbered bank accounts. However, sharing your sensitive personal information may be required when your Swiss bank performs international transactions on your behalf.

It is also important to consider that numbered accounts are considerably more expensive than regular private accounts. The annual fees for numbered accounts at Swiss banks can be as high as 1000 Swiss francs per year.

https://www.moneyland.ch/en/numbered-bank-account-switzerland

 

[Cetme308win]

this sounds from something from the past! I know there were a few banks in Uruguay that offered real numbered accounts like the one known in the past in Switzerland. I thought all of it was gone.

So I know there are some special setups described in the mentor group forums which may be on the edge to be legal, don't know, but they look more promising.

wow did these banks in Uruguay already offer such accounts?

 

[Golden Fleece]

wow did these banks in Uruguay already offer such accounts?

At one time, Uruguay was the Switzerland of banking in South America. Maybe twenty years ago. Not anymore.

 

[Cetme308win]

At one time, Uruguay was the Switzerland of banking in South America. Maybe twenty years ago. Not anymore.

I heard about it....sad commies fucked it

 

[JohnLocke]

Swiss numbered accounts exist, but you should use them to protect yourself from data breaches and creditors rather than trying to avoid income tax. It is best to stay compliant.

I totally agree.

wow did these banks in Uruguay already offer such accounts?

As I wrote, it is something from the past, not available any longer.

As mentioned it was the Switzerland for South America, was the first thing I got told when I left the airplane and did a handshake with our advisor there, that's a long time ago