Taxes aside, is America the best country to live in?

[Danteblue]

Everybody here talks about all of these countries for tax optimization like Cyprus, UAE or panama for minimizing a tax burden. Of course I understand why people do it though I also believe anybody moving to these places is making a big sacrifice. You can't compare quality of life of Cyprus to the USA no matter how much it develops.

My question to the community is: wouldn't you all just live in the USA if tax wasn't a big concern to you? Do you not feel like the USA offers you the best opportunity to become the best version of yourself and enjoy your life the most? And is reducing a tax bill then really worth it if it means simultaneously having to live in some obscure land?

 

[JohnnyDoe]

America like Manhattan, NY or Mandan, ND?

 

[Danteblue]

America like Manhattan, NY or Mandan, ND?

America like whatever floats your boat, since they have it all. Miami or Hawaii if you like tropical, Colorado for mountains, Portland for weed, Arizona for deserts, Alaska for hunting

 

[rss]

No thanks

 

[JohnnyDoe]

America like whatever floats your boat, since they have it all. Miami or Hawaii if you like tropical, Colorado for mountains, Portland for weed, Arizona for deserts, Alaska for hunting

You don’t find these things only in the USA.

 

[daniels27]

No thanks

View attachment 8451

You live in Allmendhubel?

 

[daniels27]

Everybody here talks about all of these countries for tax optimization like Cyprus, UAE or panama for minimizing a tax burden. Of course I understand why people do it though I also believe anybody moving to these places is making a big sacrifice. You can't compare quality of life of Cyprus to the USA no matter how much it develops.

My question to the community is: wouldn't you all just live in the USA if tax wasn't a big concern to you? Do you not feel like the USA offers you the best opportunity to become the best version of yourself and enjoy your life the most? And is reducing a tax bill then really worth it if it means simultaneously having to live in some obscure land?

If I look at the average Joe Doe in the US, most of them aren't getting much out of all of this. More like some whecked city where McDonald's have civil police after 6pm and only 3 customers are allowed inside just because of the shooting last week.

The US only makes sense if you run a company from there and recruit local talents and are building teams there. For pretty much anything else, you can do your work from pretty much anywhere. And there are enough places that are far better.

Let's take Allmendhubel that @rss posted. You know it is a place like close to those that I could go during a 3 hours bike ride from the capital city. And after the scenid old town, there was not much more than 15 minutes until you are out in the country side with cows. Now, take the US there simply aren't much places where you are close to the those places without having to drive two hours in heat. Maybe Denver, Malibu, Santa Barbara, not many places can compete with what you get elsewhere.

 

[Danteblue]

You don’t find these things only in the USA.

Of course but what I'm talking about goes beyond geographical diversity. Even now, America is by far and away the best country to conduct business in. They will always lead in innovation and defining the culture of the world. If you want to meet the brightest minds on planet earth, that's where you'll find most of them. If you have a child and want them to reach their potential (whether it be sports, academics, music, arts) the competitiveness and programs offered over there are unmatched by almost any other nation. If you've got the money, you can pay for basically the best services in the world that mostly aren't offered in other places (there are exceptions).

Their constitution is as good as it gets for a Western country, and America is the country that offers the closest thing to real freedom of speech (even though I'll admit, they don't have it in totality). I know the cons too - crime, many dumb people in certain places, crazy politics, poison is allowed in their food, etc..... I just believe almost all these things can be avoided with money, which I assume people here have enough of to avoid the bad things

If I look at the average Joe Doe in the US, most of them aren't getting much out of all of this. More like some whecked city where McDonald's have civil police after 6pm and only 3 customers are allowed inside just because of the shooting last week.

The US only makes sense if you run a company from there and recruit local talents and are building teams there. For pretty much anything else, you can do your work from pretty much anywhere. And there are enough places that are far better.

Let's take Allmendhubel that @rss posted. You know it is a place like close to those that I could go during a 3 hours bike ride from the capital city. And after the scenid old town, there was not much more than 15 minutes until you are out in the country side with cows. Now, take the US there simply aren't much places where you are close to the those places without having to drive two hours in heat. Maybe Denver, Malibu, Santa Barbara, not many places can compete with what you get elsewhere.

True, it's not some utopia and somebody working mcdonalds in ghetto of Detroit is definitely living worse than middle class or rich guy of Dubai or Monaco. But if we assume money is less of a problem for people here because the central point of discussion is tax optimization, I feel like people would be able to extract the highest overall quality of life while residing in America rather than many other places I've seen discussed. Not just from the perspective of enjoying life but also making money, raising children, and other things

But yes that type of European experience you describe cannot be done in the US, and it is to America's detriment.

 

[Forester]

You can't compare quality of life of Cyprus to the USA no matter how much it develops.

The quality of life is something what is totally subjective. Hence, any generalization is misleading to the remarkable extent.

wouldn't you all just live in the USA if tax wasn't a big concern to you?

Me – no. And it does not concern taxes.

Do you not feel like the USA offers you the best opportunity to become the best version of yourself and enjoy your life the most?

No, I do not. Perhaps in some regions of some states – if there were no US federal government and three-letter-agencies.

And is reducing a tax bill then really worth it if it means simultaneously having to live in some obscure land?

See above

 

[daniels27]

I feel like people would be able to extract the highest overall quality of life while residing in America rather than many other places I've seen discussed. Not just from the perspective of enjoying life but also making money, raising children, and other things

As I described, I think most people decide to stay in the US because the country has an immensely big economy coupled with good talent. If you can leverage on both of them, you can easily make a couple of millions per year. Something that is often difficult in other places with similar qualifications.

Raising children and quality of life. Again, it really depends on your preferences. I know many people that have diverging views on that. Something, I think is also a lot due to the diverging quality in the US. Raising children in Santa Barbara is not raising children in Los Angeles, let alone Chicago or some suburb of Pittsburgh. Likewise, there are public schools of excellnt quality, while others are not worth attending. The view on gun violence is also diverging, if you ask me, the biggest losers are black men in suburbs that easily get shot by approaching police because they could have a gun.

But yes that type of European experience you describe cannot be done in the US, and it is to America's detriment.

Yes, agree with you. People have different measures of life quality. Work and making money is most likely easier for the average Joe in the US as compared to Europe. There is a reason why a big number of European citizens got rich in the US. And there are many of them.

But honestly, go to Europe and talk to the people on the ground. The ones with middle income. There is no big difference in taxes-benefits. You will find many, many, that would never want to live in the US, not even while being paid there.

 

[uplana]

USA is cool and easy going depending on your profession. If you are a nobody without real good education you better live somewhere else for instant in the EUSSR where you in many countries have free healthcare and you get money from the state just to be there.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

I would live in America if taxes were 15% and there were no 3 letters agencies - that is, if freedom was real. In a ranch in Wyoming or Texas.

Fortunately, you don’t need to live in America to do business in America.

America gave me the opportunity to make 10x the money I made in the rest of the world.
I have paid millions in corporate taxes, millions to lawyers, had millions of American customers, and employed hundreds of Americans. It is a good and mutually beneficial business relationship.

So, thank you America for giving me the opportunity to live elsewhere.

 

[void]

I never conducted any business there however judging from the stories and experience of people I know and who are doing business in the US the level of overregulation and bureaucracy seems staggering and way beyond even EU
just opening a store or building a warehouse looks like an absolute nightmare

 

[marioIT]

it's not tax and bureaucracy free... but it's a great market, lovely citizens that like to spend all their money as soon as they get it and then some... AND there's a lot of space available.
one could really have it all between US and Caribbean.
the issue are those agencies as everyone knows... anything else, provided you have the money for it, is a non issue.
and the other issue is their global overreach once you have the citizenship. things that could be somehow mitigated, but if they want to shaft you there's no exit... à la Mcafee.
as far as bureaucracy goes... feed the beast and the beast will be happy. Pay a decent lawyer or make the right donation and sky is the limit.
but if then you want to break the chain... it's a bit harder. see also the Roger Ver case...
there's also that dollar issue... and the trillions that go missing each year but you know:

 

[Armani]

It's a good place for making money if you know what you're doing, I'm not sure about living in it.
Female hypergamy is crazy there.

 

[Armani]

I would live in America if taxes were 15% and there were no 3 letters agencies - that is, if freedom was real. In a ranch in Wyoming or Texas.

Fortunately, you don’t need to live in America to do business in America.

America gave me the opportunity to make 10x the money I made in the rest of the world.
I have paid millions in corporate taxes, millions to lawyers, had millions of American customers, and employed hundreds of Americans. It is a good and mutually beneficial business relationship.

So, thank you America for giving me the opportunity to live elsewhere.

Wow. In which industries were you operating there?

 

[daniels27]

Female hypergamy is crazy there.

In thre US? I think the problem is way more prominent in Asia.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Wow. In which industries were you operating there?

Financial services, entertainment.

 

[Radko]

Everybody here talks about all of these countries for tax optimization like Cyprus, UAE or panama for minimizing a tax burden. Of course I understand why people do it though I also believe anybody moving to these places is making a big sacrifice. You can't compare quality of life of Cyprus to the USA no matter how much it develops.

My question to the community is: wouldn't you all just live in the USA if tax wasn't a big concern to you? Do you not feel like the USA offers you the best opportunity to become the best version of yourself and enjoy your life the most? And is reducing a tax bill then really worth it if it means simultaneously having to live in some obscure land?

I lived in the U.S. for 19 years, the U.S. is a very big place, 85% of the country is not worth considering unless you want to live in the middle of nowhere.
Life is the U.S. has become very expensive, at least in the areas worth living in, and taxes are through the roof!

Having said that, the U.S. is still infinitely better than the EUSSR.

 

[bibing]

Wouldn't live there no matter what my wealth is. People complaining about EU are usually those who would like to get advantage of it, but cannot.