Profit shifting with NFTs - Belgium to Dubai

[FreedomSearcher]

Would it be possible to profit shift my Belgium company profits to my newly set up Dubai company trough NFTs? (I am now Dubai resident)

For example:
Dubai company buys a random NFT for $100.
Belgium company buys the NFT from the Dubai company for $X.

Now I shifted $X from Belgium to Dubai.

Is this possible? If not, why so? Or are there other ways of funneling profits without paying much or no taxes?

 

[ernestdezoe]

The weak link in the whole scheme is the moment you wire money from you Belgium bank account to the crypto exhange to acquire BTC/ETH.

Once you are able to do that then you don't need the NFT extra steps , just buy BTC, withdraw and move the BTC to the Dubai company exchange account and from there to your Dubai company bank account.

Start with this before involving NFTs in the equation. NFTs serve as a tool to say to someone who is auditing the Belgium company : "I bought these useless kitties jpeg with my profits", but it's not that different than saying "I bought BTCs with my profits and I got hacked"

If you are big and you are being audited then both excuses are the same and you'd be laughed at, so better not waste time adding the NFT layer on top of it. Gotta think in practical terms , NFTs aren't football players. A tax authority can buy the fact that Neymar Jr. is worth 223M euros. They will never buy that a kitty jpeg is worth 223k euros.

 

[FreedomSearcher]

The weak link in the whole scheme is the moment you wire money from you Belgium bank account to the crypto exhange to acquire BTC/ETH.

Once you are able to do that then you don't need the NFT extra steps , just buy BTC, withdraw and move the BTC to the Dubai company exchange account and from there to your Dubai company bank account.

Start with this before involving NFTs in the equation. NFTs serve as a tool to say to someone who is auditing the Belgium company : "I bought these useless kitties jpeg with my profits", but it's not that different than saying "I bought BTCs with my profits and I got hacked"

If you are big and you are being audited then both excuses are the same and you'd be laughed at, so better not waste time adding the NFT layer on top of it. Gotta think in practical terms , NFTs aren't football players. A tax authority can buy the fact that Neymar Jr. is worth 223M euros. They will never buy that a kitty jpeg is worth 223k euros.

So you would say 'my BTC wallet got hacked' and you think you would get away with it?

 

[ernestdezoe]

So you would say 'my BTC wallet got hacked' and you think you would get away with it?

I am saying they are equivalent. You'd not get away with "I bought this kitty jpg for 200k"

When 2 strategies are equivalent, might as well go for the easiest one because it's less time consuming and gives you time to do other stuff, including starting the clock early for the statue of limitations to kick in.

 

[369]

So you would say 'my BTC wallet got hacked' and you think you would get away with it?

Don't do it with BTC.They can track everything

 

[FreedomSearcher]

Don't do it with BTC.They can track everything

How would you do it?

 

[Helkins]

How would you do it?

You wanna do it the perfect way? Find a business partner in a high tax legit looking jurisdiction such as China and wire them the money for a % share, they'd wire it back to you in Dubai. What product or service your company bought from China you'd have to figure out, alternatively you can declare you were scammed as you didn't verify the details completely and did the transfer in good faith, start a case against said company and report the scam to the police, they won't flinch as they don't care about EUs prosecutions but you'll have a good explanation as why you lost all your money while safely enjoying it in Dubai.

I disagree with Erneste, you can very well create a whole set of NFTs, create a website, contract, everything like real projects do and instead of buying a single NFT for €200k you buy 400NFTs for €500 each. Professional approach such as this will allow you to be less subject to questions, you can even pursue it further and tip journalists (wherever) that the project's owner stole your money (happens a lot) etc. IMO with crypto it's good to find yourself a scapegoat, so creating a paper trail leading to someone's identity, server bought by guy named Joe, exchange verified by Joe fake ID, money withdrawn to Joe's exchange wallet etc. It might sound tough but it's very well doable and when transferring out large sums out of EU or US companies it's worth the especially if you care about your past country or plan to return one day/still have business there.

Lastly you can create some real nominee (a real person, darks, whatever you call it, just not some lawyer having 100s of companies under his name) companies in other EU countries, send the money around and then transfer it all out to the UAE (also preferably to a company not owned by you and for a real service, make substance for it)

 

[ernestdezoe]

I disagree with Erneste, you can very well create a whole set of NFTs, create a website, contract, everything like real projects do and instead of buying a single NFT for €200k you buy 400NFTs for €500 each

The Tax autorhity doesn't care about the NFTs . It cares about 200K leaving Belgium.

The journo approach is valid but you need a pethora of other people which are "scammed" as well and complain , otherwise it's really sus.

You wanna do it the perfect way? Find a business partner in a high tax legit looking jurisdiction such as China and wire them the money for a % share, they'd wire it back to you in Dubai

He'd have to pay Belgian VAT. Meaning the Chinese company that helps him, thus you'd get a 20% haircut

Every service rendered to a Belgian company is subject to VAT as if it was rendered in Belgiom. Exceptions might be hotel accomodations abrad , so a method could be slowly but stradly claiming 5k Eur /month of hotel expenses in Dubai.

Other idea: Belgium VAt exemptions, there must be some: UK has for children's books , toys, some pharma etc.

 

[Helkins]

The Tax autorhity doesn't care about the NFTs . It cares about 200K leaving Belgium.

The journo approach is valid but you need a pethora of other people which are "scammed" as well and complain , otherwise it's really sus.

I mean sure it does but they won't discover it immediately and if you have all the valid reasons and proofs then it's viable option. Your company can do all sorts of investments as long as they're legal and could potentially bring your company profit.

When evading taxes you gotta make the precautions and all sorts of fake thought through trails to make strong appearances. If you don't have the time and details on how to fake such scenarios you can very well employ someone to do it and it's going to be much cheaper than paying the taxes for sure.

He'd have to pay Belgian VAT. Meaning the Chinese company that helps him, thus you'd get a 20% haircut

Every service rendered to a Belgian company is subject to VAT as if it was rendered in Belgiom. Exceptions might be hotel accomodations abrad , so a method could be slowly but stradly claiming 5k Eur /month of hotel expenses in Dubai.

Other idea: Belgium VAt exemptions, there must be some: UK has for children's books , toys, some pharma etc.

If he opted for some physical goods there wouldn't be VAT to pay at the time of the invoice being issued. Chinese company issues an invoice without the VAT and you pay it, you only pay the VAT once the goods arrive in EU as they need to calculate in the duties, taxes, freight etc.
So he transfers out the money for the net value of the goods and after some time declares that goods never arrived and he's been scammed. There won't be any VAT to pay and money could be already on his UAE account.

If he decides to send the money around to different EU entities there will be 0% VAT invoices for intra-community transactions and those companies would have to transfer out the money from EU by the end of the financial year for whatever services/goods invoiced by say UAE company (but it's better to make some relay in between). That's more complex solution and would require darks etc. but is also quite viable.

Again, there are people that do it all for you for a fee

 

[Mr Gus]

The Tax autorhity doesn't care about the NFTs . It cares about 200K leaving Belgium.

The journo approach is valid but you need a pethora of other people which are "scammed" as well and complain , otherwise it's really sus.


He'd have to pay Belgian VAT. Meaning the Chinese company that helps him, thus you'd get a 20% haircut

Every service rendered to a Belgian company is subject to VAT as if it was rendered in Belgiom. Exceptions might be hotel accomodations abrad , so a method could be slowly but stradly claiming 5k Eur /month of hotel expenses in Dubai.

Other idea: Belgium VAt exemptions, there must be some: UK has for children's books , toys, some pharma etc.

Why would he have to pay VAT on b2b transactions outside of Belgium? VAT will only have to be paid to b2b in the same country (which later can be requested back in the other companies VAT return) or b2c.

 

[ernestdezoe]

Why would he have to pay VAT on b2b transactions outside of Belgium? VAT will only have to be paid to b2b in the same country (which later can be requested back in the other companies VAT return) or b2c.

Vat is paid even outside of the country , via the reverse charge mechanism

 

[ernestdezoe]

f he opted for some physical goods there wouldn't be VAT to pay at the time of the invoice being issued. Chinese company issues an invoice without the VAT and you pay it, you only pay the VAT once the goods arrive in EU as they need to calculate in the duties, taxes, freight etc.

Oh so you meant physical goods, plus claiming a scam. I think this is safer than claiming a BTC scam because it's a method used by more people and thus those using it would disappear against those who abuse it to move important amounts.

With NFTs, I think you'd be alone in doing this.

 

[Mr Gus]

Vat is paid even outside of the country , via the reverse charge mechanism

Okay that is new to me.

 

[wellington]

Reads a lot like wire fraud and money laundering.

Which governments will set examples on (NFT's etc)

 

[GPT]

Technically you should not even have to pay tax in Belgium anymore. As far as I know Belgium follows the management and control principle which basically means that your tax liabilities have already shifted to Dubai. Ask your tax lawyer.

If you also have a company in Dubai, you can then invoice your company empty (using services to avoid the VAT issue). This doesn't attract that much attention especially not if your company is not really active in Belgium anymore.

 

[countryfree]

What's your business? The purpose of your company?
I suggest you buy tangible goods, machinery, land or whatever solid. As I've been illegally downloading .mp3 then movies for 20 years, I see the entire NFT market as a scam.

 

[FastPony]

Reads a lot like wire fraud and money laundering.

O'rlllly.

https://www.elliptic.co/blog/bitcoin-money-laundering

 

[FreedomSearcher]

What's your business? The purpose of your company?
I suggest you buy tangible goods, machinery, land or whatever solid. As I've been illegally downloading .mp3 then movies for 20 years, I see the entire NFT market as a scam.

The business I run manages a lot of big Youtube channels.

 

[Helkins]

I thought you're involved in some shady stuff thus crypto solutions. Well, you can use any of the solutions I've mentioned above knowing their risks etc. or in all honestly with your type of business you can just shift profits normally claiming expansion to the MEA region in the same industry. Set up a copy of your business presence online with new company name and details, find some creators there to list on the website and transfer out the money in tranches for expenses such as marketing, which is hella expensive in the region. You could also just find a marketing agency to invoice you and give you back the money later on, many options are valid in your situation.

I shifted profits from Estonia to UAE slowly by claiming corporate expansion, I'd rent a luxury car yearly, apartment etc. (on paper) with all the calculations in mind that it's more worth it to the company than taxis, hotels etc.

 

[FreedomSearcher]

I thought you're involved in some shady stuff thus crypto solutions. Well, you can use any of the solutions I've mentioned above knowing their risks etc. or in all honestly with your type of business you can just shift profits normally claiming expansion to the MEA region in the same industry. Set up a copy of your business presence online with new company name and details, find some creators there to list on the website and transfer out the money in tranches for expenses such as marketing, which is hella expensive in the region. You could also just find a marketing agency to invoice you and give you back the money later on, many options are valid in your situation.

I shifted profits from Estonia to UAE slowly by claiming corporate expansion, I'd rent a luxury car yearly, apartment etc. (on paper) with all the calculations in mind that it's more worth it to the company than taxis, hotels etc.

Thanks for the suggestions! You think there's a high risk of getting in trouble if I do this in Belgium?