Paying EU supplier in EUR with crypto

[Dillon]

Hi,

first of all sorry if this is the wrong sub-forum, feel free to move it elsewhere if necessary.

I'm running an offshore LLC without any bank accounts (crypto only) and I have to pay an EU supplier - a well known Dutch association - by means of EUR SEPA transfer.

What would be the easiest way to do this? The amount is approximately 3000 EUR each year.

For what it matters, I have an EU passport/residency.

Thanks!

 

[Sols]

If the well known Dutch association doesn't accept payment in crypto, one quite easy solution is to issue a 3,000 EUR director's loan, pay the invoice from your personal account, and then repay yourself in crypto from the company.

But make sure you've checked the applicable regulations for that. Director's loans are often subject to restrictions and conditions. Your offshore company is tax resident wherever you live and has to comply with local tax laws, so check that this arrangement would be fine under those regulations.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

You could send crypto to someone who accepts it and who can pay the invoice in fiat on your behalf, in exchange for a commission.

 

[Dillon]

Thanks for the replies!

You could send crypto to someone who accepts it and who can pay the invoice in fiat on your behalf, in exchange for a commission.

What would be the typical commission for that kind of thing? I assume I'd check with my supplier if they'd care that the payment is coming from an unrelated entity.

Your offshore company is tax resident wherever you live and has to comply with local tax laws, so check that this arrangement would be fine under those regulations.

This is a non-issue for me. I won't get into the details at this time, but the only thing I have to worry about is the risk of piercing the corporate veil in case the LLC gets sued for whatever reason. The possibility of that happening is close to zero, although the company is listed as WHOIS contact on some high-profile domain names (nothing illegal though).

Would there be any documents I would need to draft/sign in regards to this?

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Thanks for the replies!


What would be the typical commission for this kind of thing? I assume I'd have to ask my supplier if they'd care that the payment is coming from an unrelated entity.

From 8% to 20%.
Your supplier might want to invoice the entity paying on your behalf, but that’s not a legal requirement. In all countries of the world it is legal, and provided by the laws, that a third party fulfills an obligation.

 

[Dillon]

Your supplier might want to invoice the entity paying on your behalf, but that’s not a legal requirement.

That's definitely possible. Their website allows me to change the billing details so that they invoice a 3rd party instead of my own company.

The only "catch" is that it would have to be an EU company with a VAT ID or a non-EU company - they would charge Dutch VAT in every other case.

I am leaning more towards the director's loan solution, though.

Could you please confirm that in case of the director's loan, the invoice should be issued to my company and not me?

They will charge VAT if my name is on the invoice; I'd like to avoid that.

 

[Sols]

Would there be any documents I would need to draft/sign in regards to this?

A director's loan agreement drafted under applicable regulations (which are probably the regulations of where the company is incorporated and where the company is tax resident) and make sure you reflect it correctly in the books of the company. It's a pretty simple document for a decent lawyer or accountant to draft.

 

[Samman Kaseeb Sleiman]

You could send crypto to someone who accepts it and who can pay the invoice in fiat on your behalf, in exchange for a commission.

By "who accepts crypto" do you mean officially?
Or when some individual is willing to accept crypto in exchange for some kind of service or fiat payment?

 

[JohnnyDoe]

By "who accepts crypto" do you mean officially?
Or when some individual is willing to accept crypto in exchange for some kind of service or fiat payment?

I mean those who provide this service for a fee. Obviously they need to pay fiat from a good standing EU company.

 

[Samman Kaseeb Sleiman]

I'm running an offshore LLC without any bank accounts (crypto only) and I have to pay an EU supplier - a well known Dutch association - by means of EUR SEPA transfer.

Without any bank account?
How?

Does that mean that officially, on paper your LLC isn't doing anything, isn't generating any profits or revenue, doesn't have any spendings.... ? That is, essentially, it's dormant.

How can one run an LLC without any bank account? I want to do it also, with crypto only. At least it'll be a backup plan.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Without any bank account?
How?

Does that mean that officially, on paper your LLC isn't doing anything, isn't generating any profits or revenue, doesn't have any spendings.... ? That is, essentially, it's dormant.

How can one run an LLC without any bank account? I want to do it also, with crypto only. At least it'll be a backup plan.

That’s not a problem at all, and you can even setup a DAO LLC in some US states, with the blockchain address corresponding to the DAO contract in the corp documents.

Crypto is money!

 

[Dillon]

How can one run an LLC without any bank account?

Simple. You invoice your customers/pay for expenses in crypto. Keep track of everything in Excel if you'd like. It's like any other company, just without a bank account. And no it's not dormant; that doesn't even exist in the legislation of the country I've incorporated it.

Could you please confirm that in case of the director's loan, the invoice should be issued to my company and not me?

They will charge VAT if my name is on the invoice; I'd like to avoid that.

Bump for @JohhnyDoe ... post got merged. Thanks in advance

 

[Samman Kaseeb Sleiman]

Simple. You invoice your customers/pay for expenses in crypto. Keep track of everything in Excel if you'd like. It's like any other company, just without a bank account. And no it's not dormant; that doesn't even exist in the legislation of the country I've incorporated it.

I mean, how would you account for the govenment, if your company gets paid crypto? Especially if you use your own, non-custodial wallet for incoming payments, and no third-party such as Coinbase. Even more, what if you use Monero?

If your company doesn't have any bank account, tecnically it generates no revenue, no nothing, doesn't have any activity. Therefore, it hasn't to pay any taxes. Not?




I've created a new question - How to get paid in crypto as a business?

 

[chrisgerth]

I think https://www.swapin.com/ is what you are looking for.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

I think https://www.swapin.com/ is what you are looking for.

That means converting crypto to fiat, which is not nice

 

[JimBeam]

I guess you could use Simplex.com for that purpose.
Deposit crypto, sell it, make payment to IBAN