Newbie confusing questions

[tzufli]

Hello everyone,


first of all congratulations to the creators of this forum....it is packed with very useful information.


I have been reading the forum for information and other places on the web to try and educate myself about offshore companies.


I have few questions, if you don't mind sharing your knowledge, that just seem to make me confused.


I am a EU citizen, living and working in Singapore for the last year and been in the US before that for 7 years and I am also a resident over there.


I am planning for the last month of opening a online business to sell products worldwide and maybe, since I am Singapore I would look into opening a store.


Reading through the forums I see a lot of people being very pleased with a Seychelles company and Cyprus bank account. From what I have been reading,


please correct me if I am wrong, there is no taxation on a overseas company that doesn't generate its income in Seychelles itself and that a Cyprus bank account


is very safe in terms of privacy.


And now my confusion:


1) Since the Cyprus bank needs the passport and utility bill copy, doesn't that take the anonymity out of the picture ? (in case of a court order lets say, and in the case i am the owner and director of the company)


2) If I get a nominee director assigned for my company, doesn't that mean that I will not have any control over my money and assets and that the director can do or wipe all my assets at any time?


Will there be a power of attorney assigned to me and nobody else for the bank account .... I am trying to understand how will I be able to move money around for different needs if the bank doesn't know who I am.


3)Lets say I opened a company in Seychelles and 5 years from now the taxation law changes and they will send over to EU my asset information. Will EU come to me to ask me for taxes for the past 5 years?


I greatly appreciate if you would shed some light for me.


Thank you

 

[JohnLocke]

first of all congratulations to the creators of this forum....it is packed with very useful information.
I have been reading the forum for information and other places on the web to try and educate myself about offshore companies.

I'm glad to hear you enjoy our forum, welcome aboard :hello:

Reading through the forums I see a lot of people being very pleased with a Seychelles company and Cyprus bank account. From what I have been reading,
please correct me if I am wrong, there is no taxation on a overseas company that doesn't generate its income in Seychelles itself and that a Cyprus bank account


is very safe in terms of privacy.

That's correct, a Seychelles IBC (International Business Company) will because it doesn't do business in the Seychelles be exempted from any tax. Also it is not possible to trace down the beneficial owner of a Seychelles company because there is no public register there. That said, with a court order it will be possible in certain case to get the beneficial owner data, this is very difficult to gain access to and if not impossible then almost impossible.


Since a Seychelles company is not an EU entity nor a person, then it is legit for the banks in Cyprus to refuse any request from any authority about ownership of an bank account.

1) Since the Cyprus bank needs the passport and utility bill copy, doesn't that take the anonymity out of the picture ? (in case of a court order lets say, and in the case i am the owner and director of the company)

See my comment above. The reason for why the Cyprus bank is requesting a valid passport copy or other photo ID and a utility bill to open a bank account, is that they have to comply to international laws, the Patriot Act including the avoidance of Money Laundering and Financing of Terrorism. If you are not into such stuff (I doubt you are) then you have nothing to worry about.

2) If I get a nominee director assigned for my company, doesn't that mean that I will not have any control over my money and assets and that the director can do or wipe all my assets at any time?

NO, you will be the only one who has access to the company's bank account, you will be the only one who has the PIN and Token device required to access the Cyprus bank account, also you can get a PoA and a declaration letter that you are the only one who can and will have access to the bank account and to change any codes etc.

Will there be a power of attorney assigned to me and nobody else for the bank account .... I am trying to understand how will I be able to move money around for different needs if the bank doesn't know who I am.

Yes, when nominee directors or shareholders or both are appointed to a Cyprus company a Power of Attorney is issued automatically and also included in the total costs for the incorporation of the company in Cyprus.

3)Lets say I opened a company in Seychelles and 5 years from now the taxation law changes and they will send over to EU my asset information. Will EU come to me to ask me for taxes for the past 5 years?

In that case the answer is; maybe or even yes, but why should that change and you can still push the button to liquidate the Seychelles company before anyone can get any figures for the company.

 

[chvoon]

I am a EU citizen, living and working in Singapore for the last year and been in the US before that for 7 years and I am also a resident over there.


I am planning for the last month of opening a online business to sell products worldwide and maybe, since I am Singapore I would look into opening a store.


Different countries have different domestic tax laws. It depends on which EU country you are from. That makes a lot of different.


As for US, if you are a Permanent Resident, you are oblige to report all you income and assets WORLDWIDE to the IRS. Failure to do so or ignorance will end you up in jail.


There are DTAs between countries (well some of them actually revising it so that the domestic tax act supersede the DTAs that they signed with other countries. Understand the domestic tax acts and the DTAs will save you the hassle of LIQUIDATING you existing and RUN to another countries. That is no a long term business or a proper business model/practice.


And now my confusion:


1) Since the Cyprus bank needs the passport and utility bill copy, doesn't that take the anonymity out of the picture ? (in case of a court order lets say, and in the case i am the owner and director of the company)


This is part of OECD framework. Countries who adopt the OECD standard must follow. It is also part or AMLA.


There is no bank secrecy nowadays. Since you are in Singapore, you should check out when and why Singapore has to amend they banking acts to comply with OECD requirement. If the Swiss banks cannot stop the G20 countries from forcing the to disclose the information of their clients, it is logic to think that Cyprus can't either unless they want they banks to be "sanctioned".


2) If I get a nominee director assigned for my company, doesn't that mean that I will not have any control over my money and assets and that the director can do or wipe all my assets at any time?


Will there be a power of attorney assigned to me and nobody else for the bank account .... I am trying to understand how will I be able to move money around for different needs if the bank doesn't know who I am.


If possible, never use a nominee. How sure are you that the POA is valid. Have you look up the act related to POA. Is there any provision under the acts for POA. These are the things an investor must do due diligence. Please check Singapore taxation or the nearby jurisdiction i.e. Labuan. A savvy investor should look for a reputable jurisdiction which are recognized by international bodies i.e:


Group of International Finance Centre Supervisors (GIFCS)


International Organisation of Securities Commissions (IOSCO)


Offshore Group of Insurance Supervisors (OGIS)


International Association of Insurance Supervisors (IAIS)


Asia/Pacific Group on Money Laundering (APG)


apart from IMF and WorldBank


3)Lets say I opened a company in Seychelles and 5 years from now the taxation law changes and they will send over to EU my asset information. Will EU come to me to ask me for taxes for the past 5 years?


Please check the previous cases i.e. Cyrus disclosed information to Russian Government. Panama Signed TIEA with US and other countries.


It is better to have a proper structure which comply with the country that you are working, the country that you are a tax resident and the country that you hold citizenship. All these can be cross check with the tax department in respective countries. If you cannot do it yourself, always check with at least 3-4 "advisers". The properly licensed "adviser" should be able to quote you the relevant laws and act.

 

[fionix]

If possible, never use a nominee. How sure are you that the POA is valid. Have you look up the act related to POA. Is there any provision under the acts for POA. These are the things an investor must do due diligence. Please check Singapore taxation or the nearby jurisdiction i.e. Labuan. A savvy investor should look for a reputable jurisdiction which are recognized by international bodies i.e:

Your paranoia bull**** is boring.. I have my company with nominee's and never faced a single issue....

Please check the previous cases i.e. Cyrus disclosed information to Russian Government. Panama Signed TIEA with US and other countries.

Did you actually read what happen in the case with the Russian Government and what the reason was? It seems not.

It is better to have a proper structure which comply with the country that you are working, the country that you are a tax resident and the country that you hold citizenship. All these can be cross check with the tax department in respective countries. If you cannot do it yourself, always check with at least 3-4 "advisers". The properly licensed "adviser" should be able to quote you the relevant laws and act.

In the perfect world, everyone is nice and helpful in the perfect world no one is cheating each other and you can both trust and count on every stranger that cross your way through the live.. May I ask, where is this perfect world?


It is well known that large corporations like Google, Microsoft, Coca Cola, Facebook etc. use low tax and even offshore jurisdictions to lower their tax burden, bull****ting around that you have to do proper tax planning locally was in 1950 now it's 2012 and if you won't be ripped off by the tax auth. I would recommend to look further.

There is no bank secrecy nowadays. Since you are in Singapore, you should check out when and why Singapore has to amend they banking acts to comply with OECD requirement. If the Swiss banks cannot stop the G20 countries from forcing the to disclose the information of their clients, it is logic to think that Cyprus can't either unless they want they banks to be "sanctioned".

Where did you read about this? links please!!

 

[tiea-hunter]

You say nominees are not good you say... why can't I find find any bad posting on Google? I mean what has someone to loose if he has been cheated by a nominee service? I will post it everywhere I can if I get ripped off.


to chvoon, are you into the company formation business? Where do you know all this from?

 

[JohnLocke]

There is no bank secrecy nowadays. Since you are in Singapore, you should check out when and why Singapore has to amend they banking acts to comply with OECD requirement. If the Swiss banks cannot stop the G20 countries from forcing the to disclose the information of their clients, it is logic to think that Cyprus can't either unless they want they banks to be "sanctioned".

To avoid this to turn into a thread about Cyprus banking (which is not belonging here) then I made a link to a new post you can find in the proper forum


/forum/f15/cyprus-banking-law-18330/#post32047


If you want to discuss the Cyprus banking secrecy, then please use the above thread and not this one!

 

[clemens]

I am a EU citizen, living and working in Singapore for the last year and been in the US before that for 7 years and I am also a resident over there.
I am planning for the last month of opening a online business to sell products worldwide and maybe, since I am Singapore I would look into opening a store.


Different countries have different domestic tax laws. It depends on which EU country you are from. That makes a lot of different.


As for US, if you are a Permanent Resident, you are oblige to report all you income and assets WORLDWIDE to the IRS. Failure to do so or ignorance will end you up in jail.


There are DTAs between countries (well some of them actually revising it so that the domestic tax act supersede the DTAs that they signed with other countries. Understand the domestic tax acts and the DTAs will save you the hassle of LIQUIDATING you existing and RUN to another countries. That is no a long term business or a proper business model/practice.


And now my confusion:


1) Since the Cyprus bank needs the passport and utility bill copy, doesn't that take the anonymity out of the picture ? (in case of a court order lets say, and in the case i am the owner and director of the company)


This is part of OECD framework. Countries who adopt the OECD standard must follow. It is also part or AMLA.


There is no bank secrecy nowadays. Since you are in Singapore, you should check out when and why Singapore has to amend they banking acts to comply with OECD requirement. If the Swiss banks cannot stop the G20 countries from forcing the to disclose the information of their clients, it is logic to think that Cyprus can't either unless they want they banks to be "sanctioned".


2) If I get a nominee director assigned for my company, doesn't that mean that I will not have any control over my money and assets and that the director can do or wipe all my assets at any time?


Will there be a power of attorney assigned to me and nobody else for the bank account .... I am trying to understand how will I be able to move money around for different needs if the bank doesn't know who I am.


If possible, never use a nominee. How sure are you that the POA is valid. Have you look up the act related to POA. Is there any provision under the acts for POA. These are the things an investor must do due diligence. Please check Singapore taxation or the nearby jurisdiction i.e. Labuan. A savvy investor should look for a reputable jurisdiction which are recognized by international bodies i.e:


Group of International Finance Centre Supervisors (GIFCS)


International Organisation of Securities Commissions (IOSCO)


Offshore Group of Insurance Supervisors (OGIS)


International Association of Insurance Supervisors (IAIS)


Asia/Pacific Group on Money Laundering (APG)


apart from IMF and WorldBank


3)Lets say I opened a company in Seychelles and 5 years from now the taxation law changes and they will send over to EU my asset information. Will EU come to me to ask me for taxes for the past 5 years?


Please check the previous cases i.e. Cyrus disclosed information to Russian Government. Panama Signed TIEA with US and other countries.


It is better to have a proper structure which comply with the country that you are working, the country that you are a tax resident and the country that you hold citizenship. All these can be cross check with the tax department in respective countries. If you cannot do it yourself, always check with at least 3-4 "advisers". The properly licensed "adviser" should be able to quote you the relevant laws and act.

Does I smell something is wrong with this user? People posting nonsense like this I have only seen in Panama so far.. Admin, I advise you to check this users IP address! If proxy, BAN!

 

[orangeye]

I either had any issues with my bank account in Cyprus nor the nominees appointed to my 3 Y.o Cyprus corporation. All are happy never had a single issue :thumbsUp::thumbsUp::thumbsUp::thumbsUp:

 

[clemens]

Never had a single issue, so I have a few friends who maintain a offshore company in Cyprus for many years (longer than me) who never faced any troubles too...

 

[tzufli]

hello,


sory it took me a couple of days to answer...just had some hectic days at work and didn't get a chance get on the forum...


in regards to all the answers...i will say a few words about each of them:


1) Thank you Admin for the info provided...it really made me understand a few things that were confusing for me .... not entirely sure how the liquidation process works and what is involved but i am researching that at the moment


2)chvoon :


-thank you for your imput ...i am looking and getting advice from a few people that do this for a living


- i did look into other places to open but Seychelles seems to be the best tailored choice for me and my plans.... Lebuan doesn't seem to fit my needs


- i tried looking and researching the Cyprus/Russia problem you mentioned but i really have to admit that i didn't find much ....more like close to no information on the matter


-nominee director is not something that i was keen on getting ....and i will probably not ..... but chatting with a lawyer today...assured me that it can be done


3) Jpay:


- thank you for the feedback


-i got a bit confused when you said that it might be something wrong about this user....not really sure if you were referring to me or chvoon


Also thanks to everyone who shared their thoughts...much appreciated.


Some people over here told me to also look into Hong Kong ...since is very close to me ...it seems more easy to setup but privacy doesnt seem to be the same. Any thoughts on that?


Thanks

 

[clemens]

i got a bit confused when you said that it might be something wrong about this user....not really sure if you were referring to me or chvoon

Don't worry it was the user chvoon

not entirely sure how the liquidation process works and what is involved but i am researching that at the moment

Pretty simple porcess, your CSP will take care of the entire process you don't need to do anything.

 

[chvoon]

Does I smell something is wrong with this user? People posting nonsense like this I have only seen in Panama so far.. Admin, I advise you to check this users IP address! If proxy, BAN!

Becoming a member of GIFCS, IOSCO, OGIS, AIS, APG, World Bank, IMF is nonsense?


Where to put one's hard earned money? What kind of protection and guarantee? To people that one don't even know who regulate them?


Just look at Swiss and how they are forced to "comply" with US demand, FATCA etc. and one can see how the G20 members i.e. Russia are forcing their neighboring IFCs to EXCHANGE INFORMATION

 

[clemens]

Becoming a member of GIFCS, IOSCO, OGIS, AIS, APG, World Bank, IMF is nonsense?

I didn't say that :sb:

Where to put one's hard earned money? What kind of protection and guarantee? To people that one don't even know who regulate them?

If you are not familiar with the Internet and can't use time to figure out who you can trust and who to avoid, then consult a local tax lawyer near by you and be happy with what they offer. Bull****ting the forum about SCARY stories and Be carefully the dark Internet can't be trusted, all the people you meet in Cyberspace are Cowboys and only here to scam you won't lead to something constructive but rather to a flaming thread thumbsdown

Just look at Swiss and how they are forced to "comply" with US demand, FATCA etc. and one can see how the G20 members i.e. Russia are forcing their neighboring IFCs to EXCHANGE INFORMATION

So you need to consult some professionals to help you find a workaround! There will ALWAYS be a way, you just need to find it:hello:

 

[megamath]

Becoming a member of GIFCS, IOSCO, OGIS, AIS, APG, World Bank, IMF is nonsense?
Where to put one's hard earned money? What kind of protection and guarantee? To people that one don't even know who regulate them?


Just look at Swiss and how they are forced to "comply" with US demand, FATCA etc. and one can see how the G20 members i.e. Russia are forcing their neighboring IFCs to EXCHANGE INFORMATION

I defently disagree to this.


If the reason to form a offshore company is to protect your privacy, assets and anonymity you don't want at all to go with a regulated company service provider, you will for all cost avoid it! Why do I say so will you ask? - because the more regulated the CSP is the more risk to your personal information to be released to government body's. If you have a multi million dollar business you don't have to care about all this, but for the small and middle class man you will want to find a reliable and trusted CSP to perform the task of forming a offshore company for your needs.


On the other hand, if the goal to form a offshore company is only to hide your identity towards customers and suppliers a regulated CSP can be good. You want to bearer in mind that most often the regulated CSP's are much more expansive than the unregulated, most often you pay for the fact that the CSP is regulated where with the unregulated you pay for their experience and most often for the workarounds the regulated CSP can't offer you

 

[john Ashby]

If you are worried about being "found out" then you could instead set up a Ajman (UAE) free zone company, plus an arab bank (Emirates etc). You then stay in the UAE for a couple of weeks to apply for tax residency. Once obtained you only need to visit a couple of times per year to keep your tax residency (you cannot be out of the country for more than 6 months in a single period). With tax residency in the UAE the bank will not report under the CRS provisions… so no tax and no intrusive reporting either