Looted by my country and started considering other options

[RaoulDuke]

Hi!

My name is Raúl and I've just joined the forum. Why? Recently I got tired of being looted by my country and started considering other options. To be clear, I'm not against paying taxes; I think they are necessary and really good when they are used in the right places. But I hate when our money is squandered and wasted away by corrupt politicians. On top of that, recently I saw a graphic that shows how in my country, Spain, 11.5 million people's taxes are sustaining 36 million people that are either public servants, politicians, retirees, unemployed, or living on universal minimum pay. Plus our country is spending money on super important things like painting benches pink to boost equality. I don't know if anyone else in this group is from Spain, but the situation is getting crazy. A lot of people I know already left for Andorra or Portugal... So, I started considering closing my company in Spain and moving abroad. So I started googling a little bit and that lead me to a post on this forum. I see that is full of people with a lot of knowledge and It would be awesome to get pointed in the right direction. So, since I just started learning about international taxes and incorporating offshore, when I have a bit more knowledge I'll ask for advice. So for now, thank you very much for allowing me to be part of the forum, and looking forward to learning from you all.

Cheers!

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Hi! Since you are planning to move for real, look at zero tax countries, or at least countries with territorial taxation (like Costarica).

 

[RaoulDuke]

Hi! Since you are planning to move for real, look at zero tax countries, or at least countries with territorial taxation (like Costarica).

Thank you! I'll look into it. And language wouldn't be an issue.

 

[JohnLocke]

Welcome aboard, enjoy your stay

 

[RaoulDuke]

Welcome aboard, enjoy your stay

Thank you James! Loved you in Stargate

 

[KDX]

Welcome!

As Johnny said, you should be careful about where you move to if reducing tax is your goal. I've heard of people going to Thailand as the tax system there is territorial. Then there's Malta, UAE, Cyprus, Bahamas, Caribbean islands like St. Kitts, St. Lucia etc.

But then again, culture, lifestyle etc. is also important

 

[RaoulDuke]

Welcome!

As Johnny said, you should be careful about where you move to if reducing tax is your goal. I've heard of people going to Thailand as the tax system there is territorial. Then there's Malta, UAE, Cyprus, Bahamas, Caribbean islands like St. Kitts, St. Lucia etc.

But then again, culture, lifestyle etc. is also important

Yeah, absolutely agree. It's not just moving for the sake of the taxes, I'm not looking for Tax 0% at any cost. In Spain food, weather and people are super nice... and once you get used to certain things is hard to give up on them and move to the middle of nowhere. Malta and Cyprus are close and having a European passport definitely will help. It's really sad living in a really cool country, and just because it's ruled by crooks and mafia being forced to move to survive.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

If you like or need to pay taxes, Italy offers a €100k flat tax valid for 15 years.

 

[RaoulDuke]

If you like or need to pay taxes, Italy offers a €100k flat tax valid for 15 years.

Italy would certainly be ideal, with very similar weather and cost of living to Spain. But since our revenue is not constant. The kind of product we develop we spend 3 to 4 years creating (all expenses - zero income) and then we have 1 year with a huge amount of sales. Then we start over. So the flat taxes would not be a good option for us. But it's really interesting to know that. Thanks!

 

[KDX]

Italy would certainly be ideal, with very similar weather and cost of living to Spain. But since our revenue is not constant. The kind of product we develop we spend 3 to 4 years creating (all expenses - zero income) and then we have 1 year with a huge amount of sales. Then we start over. So the flat taxes would not be a good option for us. But it's really interesting to know that. Thanks!

That's interesting. You should've told us that!

Remember, you can always change your tax residence so maybe you could have a low-tax residency somewhere for when you need to start selling again and then when sales stop, you relocate to your favorite place for a couple of years, not triggering tax if its all expenses! Of course, the tax authority might not like this and will try to stop you but it could work in theory?

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Italy would certainly be ideal, with very similar weather and cost of living to Spain. But since our revenue is not constant. The kind of product we develop we spend 3 to 4 years creating (all expenses - zero income) and then we have 1 year with a huge amount of sales. Then we start over. So the flat taxes would not be a good option for us. But it's really interesting to know that. Thanks!

I assume that you invest your profits in something else, so you also need to consider taxes on your investments.
You might like the Dominican Republic, you could even setup your business in a free zone. As a Spanish national it would be easy for you to relocate, and there are daily flights from Madrid.
Plus, after 5-7 years of residence you can obtain citizenship.

 

[RaoulDuke]

I assume that you invest your profits in something else, so you also need to consider taxes on your investments.
You might like the Dominican Republic, you could even setup your business in a free zone. As a Spanish national it would be easy for you to relocate, and there are daily flights from Madrid.
Plus, after 5-7 years of residence you can obtain citizenship.

We don't do investments outside the company. I mean all the profit gets re-invested inside growing the team and taking on more projects. We are a tiny company focused on growing. The Dominican Republic is real nice, but I would like to be closer to my family. Anyway, thanks a lot it's helping me see how many possibilities are out there. I'm ready for a lot of posts in the forum, many of my questions are answered there, but I'll write a post when I have a clearer picture of what I have in mind.

 

[KDX]

We don't do investments outside the company. I mean all the profit gets re-invested inside growing the team and taking on more projects. We are a tiny company focused on growing. The Dominican Republic is real nice, but I would like to be closer to my family. Anyway, thanks a lot it's helping me see how many possibilities are out there. I'm ready for a lot of posts in the forum, many of my questions are answered there, but I'll write a post when I have a clearer picture of what I have in mind.

Spain is known for its aggressive taxation. If you need to be close to family visit them regularly etc. It COULD be viewed as having strong ties therefore still being a tax resident in Spain... if you can't relocate properly then you're gonna have a hard time

 

[Marzio]

In Spain food, weather and people are super nice... and once you get used to certain things is hard to give up on them and move to the middle of nowhere.

Well so why don't you continue to stay in Spain but move your headquarter to Canarias? You could take advantage of the Zona Especial Canaria which gives the benefit of having a company with 4% corporate tax rate which is one of lower rates in the world, not only in EU.

Usually this option is not considered by the average user in this forum because it requires:

1. cash investment (at least 50k)
2. team members (at least 3)

I can see how you could easily relocate your company in the Canary Islands, working from there with the team while eating cheap seafood and surfing when you finish working.

WTF do you want more?

Last but not the least, by relocating to Canary Islands you could make use of RIC which is something that every big hotel in Canary Islands use to obtain 90% discount on taxes. Basically the government it will say "We will discount 90% of your due taxes if in X years you reivenst in the Canary Islands everything that you saved in those years"

Yes, taxation is awful in Spain in general but in the Canary Islands there are some awesome tax savings for entrepreneurs.

 

[KDX]

Well so why don't you continue to stay in Spain but move your headquarter to Canarias? You could take advantage of the Zona Especial Canaria which gives the benefit of having a company with 4% corporate tax rate which is one of lower rates in the world, not only in EU.

Usually this option is not considered by the average user in this forum because it requires:

1. cash investment (at least 50k)
2. team members (at least 3)

I can see how you could easily relocate your company in the Canary Islands, working from there with the team while eating cheap seafood and surfing when you finish working.

WTF do you want more?

Last but not the least, by relocating to Canary Islands you could make use of RIC which is something that every big hotel in Canary Islands use to obtain 90% discount on taxes. Basically the government it will say "We will discount 90% of your due taxes if in X years you reivenst in the Canary Islands everything that you saved in those years"

Yes, taxation is awful in Spain in general but in the Canary Islands there are some awesome tax savings for entrepreneurs.

Wow, haven't heard of that before. OP should definitely consider this

 

[RealDude]

If the prerequisite were not 5 full-time jobs, I would have been living in Tenerife with my family for years.

 

[RaoulDuke]

Well so why don't you continue to stay in Spain but move your headquarter to Canarias? You could take advantage of the Zona Especial Canaria which gives the benefit of having a company with 4% corporate tax rate which is one of lower rates in the world, not only in EU.

Usually this option is not considered by the average user in this forum because it requires:

1. cash investment (at least 50k)
2. team members (at least 3)

I can see how you could easily relocate your company in the Canary Islands, working from there with the team while eating cheap seafood and surfing when you finish working.

WTF do you want more?

Last but not the least, by relocating to Canary Islands you could make use of RIC which is something that every big hotel in Canary Islands use to obtain 90% discount on taxes. Basically the government it will say "We will discount 90% of your due taxes if in X years you reivenst in the Canary Islands everything that you saved in those years"

Yes, taxation is awful in Spain in general but in the Canary Islands there are some awesome tax savings for entrepreneurs.

I knew about Canarias, and I would love to move there. Two big issues, you must hire 5 people from Canary Island, which I'm not against, but In our sector (video game development) is hard to find high talent from the Islands. Also, the biggest issue with Spain is that they change the laws quicker than they eat candy, and if that wasn't scary enough, the tax office here is the updated version of the Spanish inquisition, if you make money they will always find a tiny loophole in the law to make you pay full taxes.

Before joining the forum, I read so many stories from Spanish people who tried that, and they fulfilled all the theoretical requisites, their kind of business was on the list of kinds of businesses that can get that. They hired people from Canarias... but after 4 years of doing business happily... BOOM tax inspection. They lost almost everything.

It was my very first option. But knowing what I know about the Spanish tax office, I wouldn't do it.

And about the RIC the list of things that they consider "Investing in the Canary Islands" Is quite peculiar and wouldn't fit with us. Works with Hotels, bars, restaurants, mainly everything that focuses on tourism. But it doesn't really work for anything "technology" related.

Oh, and I forgot, the worst thing in Spain, is that a LIMITED LIABILITY Company is never really that. The tax office here will get the money, if your company doesn't have it, they will go for the administrator, even if you did nothing wrong, they will find a reason to say you were doing it badly, they will take all your money first, properties... That's not enough... they will go for any of the business partners, and they will take their money and assets. It would be nice to find a place where the only one Liable is the company.

 

[KDX]

I knew about Canarias, and I would love to move there. Two big issues, you must hire 5 people from Canary Island, which I'm not against, but In our sector (video game development) is hard to find high talent from the Islands. Also, the biggest issue with Spain is that they change the laws quicker than they eat candy, and if that wasn't scary enough, the tax office here is the updated version of the Spanish inquisition, if you make money they will always find a tiny loophole in the law to make you pay full taxes.

Before joining the forum, I read so many stories from Spanish people who tried that, and they fulfilled all the theoretical requisites, their kind of business was on the list of kinds of businesses that can get that. They hired people from Canarias... but after 4 years of doing business happily... BOOM tax inspection. They lost almost everything.

It was my very first option. But knowing what I know about the Spanish tax office, I wouldn't do it.

And about the RIC the list of things that they consider "Investing in the Canary Islands" Is quite peculiar and wouldn't fit with us. Works with Hotels, bars, restaurants, mainly everything that focuses on tourism. But it doesn't really work for anything "technology" related.

Oh, and I forgot, the worst thing in Spain, is that a LIMITED LIABILITY Company is never really that. The tax office here will get the money, if your company doesn't have it, they will go for the administrator, even if you did nothing wrong, they will find a reason to say you were doing it badly, they will take all your money first, properties... That's not enough... they will go for any of the business partners, and they will take their money and assets. It would be nice to find a place where the only one Liable is the company.

Your only option is to relocate then. You might not be able to visit your family that frequently if you don't want them to be on your a*s. Unless you go dark with a second passport or something. Go travel and find some nice place to settle in

Tread carefully when dealing with Spain, best of luck and ask away if you need any help!

 

[Marzio]

In our sector (video game development)

No problem: plan B is Ceuta gaming company

But knowing what I know about the Spanish tax office, I wouldn't do it.

Plan C-a: If you are "sea" person relocate to Gibraltar and apply plan B

Plan C-b: if you are "mountain" person relocate to Andorra and apply plan B

 

[RaoulDuke]

Yeah, Gibraltar could be an opition. But I barely know anything about it. I do know many people that use Gibraltar while living down in southern Spain which is cheap and nice.