Living is Spain as a non-resident

[mike400]

Hello, did anybody talk to Spanish lawyers about this or is living as a non-resident in Spain?

An individual is resident in Spanish territory when any one of the following circumstances apply (machine translation of the personal income tax law - 35/2006, Article 9)

"a) That they remain more than 183 days, during the calendar year, in Spanish territory. To determine this period of stay in Spanish territory, sporadic absences will be counted, unless the taxpayer proves his tax residence in another country. In the case of countries or territories considered as tax havens, the Tax Administration may require proof of permanence in it for 183 days in the calendar year."

Anybody knows what period is long enough not to be considered sporadic absence? And if somebody has, let's say UAE residency, the "sporadic absences" are not counted, right?

"b) That the main nucleus or the base of its activities or economic interests resides in Spain, directly or indirectly.

It will be presumed, unless proven otherwise, that the taxpayer has his habitual residence in Spanish territory when, in accordance with the previous criteria, the spouse not legally separated and the minor children who depend on him or her habitually reside in Spain."

Does this mean, that if you have a kid with a Spanish resident (while not being married) you are presumed to be a tax resident? Or you have to be married?


The good thing is, that there's no permanent home rule, so it's possible to own a home in Spain without becoming tax resident (if you spend less than 183 days in Spain and don't have the center of life interests there).

 

[Martin Everson]

Anybody knows what period is long enough not to be considered sporadic absence? And if somebody has, let's say UAE residency, the "sporadic absences" are not counted, right?

That sounds like something the Spanish taxman decides at their discretion. The important part is proving tax residency in another country thats not a tax haven.

Does this mean, that if you have a kid with a Spanish resident (while not being married) you are presumed to be a tax resident? Or you have to be married?

I think marriage/center of life is the factor. If I go on holiday to Spain and knock-up some Spanish chick they cannot claim I am tax resident there. Neither can they claim that if my wife decides to move to Spain and I have not set foot there.


Bottom line avoid Spain if tax is of any concern.

 

[mike400]

I think marriage/center of life is the factor. If I go on holiday to Spain and knock-up some Spanish chick they cannot claim I am tax resident there. Neither can they claim that if my wife decides to move to Spain and I have not set foot there.

I meant more like having kids with a Spanish partner. Obviously I won't get married, but let's say we have kids together and I'd also have one of my permanent homes in Spain (where I'll spend around 3 months per year). But I guess that will move my center of vital interests (CVI) to Spain anyway and thus make me a tax resident...

But now that I think about it, the same thing (partner with a kid from some country and also one of my permanent homes in that country) would probably move my CVI in any country. So it looks like the future mother of my kids shouldn't be from a country where I intend to also keep a permanent home

Bottom line avoid Spain if tax is of any concern.

Yes, avoiding Spanish taxes is the goal. But I'd like to own a home there without becoming tax resident. Looks like it's doable unless I have another major tie to the country (e.g. kid with a Spanish girl). (OR I can have a kid with Spanish girl and NO home in Spain, then use DTA with UAE after I get a permanent home in UAE. But then the Spanish taxman can try to f**k me over by claiming I have permanent home available in Spain at my girlfriends place, so she should probably get rid of her place as well to be safe.)


BTW, Spanish wealth tax (on the property) also applies to non-residents or just residents?

 

[GPT]

From a different thread (if I remember correctly about Andorra) it was mentioned that you are screwed for taxes when you have a child living in Spain.

 

[Martin Everson]

BTW, Spanish wealth tax (on the property) also applies to non-residents or just residents?

Applies to both. As a non-resident you are taxed on your assets {property etc} you hold in Spain unless you hold your Spanish assets in Madrid where there is no wealth tax.....for now.


Again forget about that Spain if tax is a concern. I looked into Spain and having a summer villa there as a non-resident years ago. I worked out I would be financially raped.

 

[mike400]

Again forget about that Spain if tax is a concern. I looked into Spain and having a summer villa there as a non-resident years ago. I worked out I would be financially raped.

How can you be raped, if you avoid the wealth tax (by having property worth less than the 500-700k tax free allowance) and don't have CVI there?

Did you mean property worth much more than that?

 

[kkein]

Applies to both. As a non-resident you are taxed on your assets {property etc} you hold in Spain unless you hold your Spanish assets in Madrid where there is no wealth tax.....for now.


Again forget about that Spain if tax is a concern. I looked into Spain and having a summer villa there as a non-resident years ago. I worked out I would be financially raped.

what alternative did you pick, then?

 

[Martin Everson]

what alternative did you pick, then?

I've not picked an alternative. I think I am done with EU in general.

How can you be raped, if you avoid the wealth tax (by having property worth less than the 500-700k tax free allowance) and don't have CVI there?

Did you mean property worth much more than that?

I was looking at property in La Zagaleta or down towards Puerto Banus for circa 5.5m and a nice car to enjoy the lifestyle in summer. The wealth tax is outrageous however. It was if I remember in excess of 70k a year alone not including IBI and for a non-resident.

 

[Hermana]

Avoid being a tax resident in Spain for sure. They do financially rape you wherever they can. Spain has the most agressive tax office of Europe. Yes, if your children live in Spain, you are considered a tax resident in Spain. Unless you can prove different. But when the tax office has an opinion about something, it will be very hard to prove different, even if you have all your prove in place. Avoid this kind of problems if you can.

I don't really get if you do or don't have a kid in Spain, but if you do, either move your kid from Spain or have a very good case of tax residency in another country, including the 183 days.

 

[mike400]

I don't really get if you do or don't have a kid in Spain, but if you do, either move your kid from Spain or have a very good case of tax residency in another country, including the 183 days.

No I don't, but I do like latinas, especially if they have an EU passport

Anyway, looks like having a kid with Spanish resident AND having a flat in Spain it not a good idea, if I want to avoid becoming tax resident.

Also owning property above 700k (500k in Catalonia) will be costly due to their wealth tax.

But what about owning holiday flat under 500k without any other ties to the country? I should be clearly a non-resident in this case. Has anybody some experience with this?

 

[Hermana]

Having a kid that lives in Spain is not a good idea, independent of the flat. Unless you are divorced.

Owning a holiday flat is not a problem at all. Many people do that.
Make sure to file any rents or if not, make sure no one 'll be there for more then 183 days. If you are there for 4 monts and your sister will be there for 4 monts, you have a problem. Independent of the prove you have.

 

[daxbr]

No I don't, but I do like latinas, especially if they have an EU passport

Anyway, looks like having a kid with Spanish resident AND having a flat in Spain it not a good idea, if I want to avoid becoming tax resident.

Also owning property above 700k (500k in Catalonia) will be costly due to their wealth tax.

But what about owning holiday flat under 500k without any other ties to the country? I should be clearly a non-resident in this case. Has anybody some experience with this?

The only way this will work out is the migrant route. Register as a resident from the beginning and take full advantage of social programs. Other interests do not exist.

 

[GPT]

No I don't, but I do like latinas, especially if they have an EU passport

try another Southern European country? Portugal or Italy for instance? The character traits do not differ that much

 

[kkein]

The only way this will work out is the migrant route. Register as a resident from the beginning and take full advantage of social programs. Other interests do not exist.

I don't understand: plenty of northern europeans own flats in spain, mallorca, catalunia, etc. They are still tax resident in their home countries and do seem pretty happy about their ability to escape to spain for holidays?

 

[GPT]

I don't understand: plenty of northern europeans own flats in spain, mallorca, catalunia, etc. They are still tax resident in their home countries and do seem pretty happy about their ability to escape to spain for holidays?

You said it “holiday escape”.

furthermore; how do they own? It really is theirs? Or is it in a holiday park where it is managed and rented out to others as well?

the latter option creates a completely different situation.

 

[Hermana]

Yes you can have your summer house in Spain, not a problem.
You can either stay there <183 days a year or you can rent it out. If you rent it out, you will declare the rent and you will pay I believe 20% taxes over this as a non resident.

Spanish tax office does check utilitiy bills on a regular base, and other signs that you are spending more then 183 days in Spain. So if someone is in your house >183 and you did not declare rent, then they will claim you were there more then 183 days and you have a very diffecult case.

 

[mike400]

Spanish tax office does check utilitiy bills on a regular base, and other signs that you are spending more then 183 days in Spain. So if someone is in your house >183 and you did not declare rent, then they will claim you were there more then 183 days and you have a very diffecult case.

Motherfuckers

Is this your personal experience or somebody's you know?

 

[Martin Everson]

Motherfuckers

lol

 

[Hermana]

Is this your personal experience or somebody's you know?

Many stories like this. Check the expat groups in Spain.

 

[Konstanz]

Just read Shakira story. But that was the case when somebody snitch you to tax inspectors. In Shakira case it was her ex.
https://english.elpais.com/economy_...tax-agency-followed-the-trail-of-shakira.html