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Labuan, Cyprus, or HK for digital services business

fxvps

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Mar 27, 2019
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Hi,

I currently run a saas business along with some Forex trading as my digital income source. I am located in Canada and intend to pay taxes on all income brought here but not all of my profits accrued, I am looking for ways to reduce my taxable amount and the business can be listed anywhere. I have been doing some research for the last month and end up going in circles on whats the best approach?

I need paypal and have been using stripe(but open to change).

Labuan - no tax treaty with Canada, 3% tax on net, unsure about paypal
HK - claimed 0% tax but sketchy govt practices of taxation, treaty with canada
Cyprus - very promoted here.. not sure how canada/cy works.

thanks for your input.
 
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I'd not advise to use Labuan without a lot of research. Banks are too unprofessional for my taste (you might end up having using fax instead of online banking). Maybe it works if you have good connections to one of the banks there or can offer them good business. Expect minimum balance of US$20000 or more.
And they just changed the tax rules. Not good for someone who prefers long term tax planning. ;-)
PayPal charges a percentage fee for overseas transactions (not flat fee as in other countries) - expect to pay 3% (or so) to PayPal if you want to send money for example. That's from the transactions volume, worse than paying corporate tax to Labuan ;-) .
 
What would you say to have a legit Holding company in Cyprus and a trading company in Seychelles, open an EMI or Cyp account for both companies and move profits from the Seychelles company to the CYP holding company. Then do the loan model to take out money for personal spending tax free as long as it goes.

Any suggestion?
 
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Hi,

I currently run a saas business along with some Forex trading as my digital income source. I am located in Canada and intend to pay taxes on all income brought here but not all of my profits accrued, I am looking for ways to reduce my taxable amount and the business can be listed anywhere. I have been doing some research for the last month and end up going in circles on whats the best approach?

I need paypal and have been using stripe(but open to change).

Labuan - no tax treaty with Canada, 3% tax on net, unsure about paypal
HK - claimed 0% tax but sketchy govt practices of taxation, treaty with canada
Cyprus - very promoted here.. not sure how canada/cy works.

thanks for your input.

Disregard a lot of the comments here clearly they don't know or understand Canadian tax rules.

Let's start at the beginning for you since you're Canadian you need to start by understanding Canadian tax rules.

1. You don't need to pay taxes on certain income repatriated to a Canadian holding company. This is almost always the best option for Canadians because it gives a ton of freedom for say qualifying for mortgages without having to pay a whole bunch of tax. This immediately rules out places like Seychelles because it only applies when Canada has a DTA or TIEA in place

2. Canada has management and control rules for corporate residency so it's not so simple as forming a foreign company you need to have foreign management and control OR a tax treaty that overrides this rule (usually eastern Europe or Barbados if you're looking for those tie breaker rules, in theory the US applies but then you'd want a US LLC and they aren't covered under the residency clause of the treaty, though recent case law has played this either way). Often it's easier and better to have a foreign manager instead, which brings up a whole host of other considerations.

3. Canada has something called FAPI rules (these are Canada's version of CFC rules) and you've got a risk they will be triggered under your SaaS business because they apply to royalties income so you need to give into how these apply

4. Paypal is pretty much going to screw you because any place with close to zero tax (aside from a US LLC) is going to result in Paypal nailing you with all sorts of fees you're better off avoiding. Likewise, Stripe is going to be very limited so you're better off going with another processor

I actually really like Labuan under certain circumstances. Not sure what the people in this thread are saying Labuan gives a bunch of banking options and makes a ton of sense but almost only if you're actually going to build a business there if you're just trying to throw up a shell it's not such a great option because then why not look to a variety of other options?

You need to be careful with HK as well because while HK can result in 0% again they don't do this for royalties income and your SaaS income could be considered royalties income.

There is a very fancy Estonian set up you can use and you could also use a multi-layer structure with a US LLC that fits nicely into this sort of situation but you've got to plan it out accordingly and how it would work in practice would require diving into some of the specifics of how your business operates.

In a perfect world here's what you end up with:

1. Canadian holding company that owns a foreign operating company
2. Foreign operating company is based in a jurisdiction where management and control rules are overriden or you've got foreign management and income isn't treated as royalties income but rather active business income
3. Income is earned tax free or close to it in the foreign jurisdiction and then you pay dividends back to the Canadian holding company tax free where you can hold them or reinvest them or whatever (you can't reinvest in the foreign company most of the time or it will trigger the FAPI rules)
4. You benefit from lower dividend tax rates personally and use some other tricks to take advantage of the rest of the income tax free and tax deferred

This is ideal but again it needs you to structure little nuances of it properly.
 
Not sure what the people in this thread are saying Labuan gives a bunch of banking options and makes a ton of sense b
You can name a few of these bunch of banks that are ready to open an account for a company resident there?
 
I would appreciate to see some names of the banks as well as reliable Agent's that may be able to help.
 
Labuan is not so suitable anymore as they have new substance requirements from 2019. You need to spend at least 100000rm (24k usd) depending on the industry in Labuan in local expenses and have employees, else the company will be taxed as normal Malaysia companies.
 
You can name a few of these bunch of banks that are ready to open an account for a company resident there?

UOB, OCBC, Standard Chartered, etc. etc. etc. Then you can bank with that company in Singapore or elsewhere as well. Labuan as far as I'm concerned currently has some of the best banking options going for a country with very low tax.

Consider what are your alternatives going to be?

HK has some good banks but it's hard to open there (though getting easier at the moment).

Singapore is super hard to have very low tax.

Dubai suffers from troubling banking these days and is also super expensive to set up and maintain (though I do like their included residency scheme but dislike the IT infrastructure).

Georgia is decent, though beware growing substance requirements.

Malta is utter garbage for banking so you need to bank elsewhere.

Gibratlar has no local banking to speak of so you need to bank elsewhere.

Estonia banking has gotten much tougher.

Latvia banking has gotten worse.

Isle of Man you basically need local fiduciaries. Jersey and Guernsey are basically the same.

Mauritius is mostly crap options.

Barbados is changing their rules to be less compelling and you'll probably require someone local.

Bahamas etc. all have the Caribbean work ethic and weather issues to consider.

Cayman is very tough and again options aren't amazing.

Bermuda you'll require someone local and is super expensive.

All the small islands in the Pacific and Indian ocean offer nothing for local banking and create reputational concerns.

The US is good if you have no connections to there but their support for other currencies is almost non-existent.

Cyprus is sketchy when it comes to banking at best and regulations are getting worse so it's harder to set up there and lots of accounts are being closed down so it's not a sustainable reliable solution.

Andorra good luck getting an account opened and companies there cost a fortune and take forever to get formed.

Bulgaria is ok if you're ok with 10% tax and poor write offs.

Romania is ok if you're not making much money.

Hungary is ok if you're ok with 9% tax.

Montenegro I wouldn't touch.

Puerto Rico is alright if you're willing to spend the money on the set up and being connected with the US doesn't have negative consequences for you.

I might have missed a couple but more or less that should pretty much cover the world.

The goal used to be when building a structure to have banking in a different country from the company to help with liability issues but increasingly this has gotten tougher and riskier from a sustainability standpoint because it's far more likely to get denied or have your account shut down if you're operating via a foreign company than a local company so usually we're now looking for places we can both form a company and open a bank account. There's still options of course and EMIs are adding more but then you've got to trust EMIs, which I mostly don't and usually they are more expensive to operate with than regular banks. Some major banks will still take you depending on their compliance cycle and that's great but more and more I'd expect them not to if you don't have a local business and be planning for that eventuality (Malta and Gibraltar are the two really sad ones here because they both have super valuable use cases so you need some alternative banking options).

Substance is coming in as some people noted and anyone who is thinking long term should be thinking to operate within this not against it. The trend is for countries and banks all over the world to demand substance. Until maybe a year ago we could get pretty good banking options in Czech, now it's essentially impossible without local substance and I don't see that trend reversing. This is accompanied by tougher tax rules and policing though so thinking in terms of not avoiding substance but using it as a competitive advantage I think is the way to go. It's certainly how I'm building advantage is traveling to these countries, checking out what I can get in terms of team, infrastructure, etc. and using that to differentiate and add value. Good chance 3 years from now anyone who isn't thinking that way will be at a significant disadvantage.
 
honestly your posts are so long that I lost overview and it does not really answer my question.
 
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cimb (malaysia and labuan), maybank (malaysia), uob (malaysia), ocbc (malaysia and singapore), standard chartered (malaysia and singapore), hsbc (labuan offshore), anz bank (singapore) are all ready to open bank accounts for labuan companies.
 
I have made a list of links from the above post:
http://www.alb-labuan.com/member-cimb.asphttps://www.maybank2u.com.my/home/m2u/common/login.dohttps://www.uob.com.my/default/index.pagehttps://www.ocbc.com.my/https://www.sc.com/my/https://www.business.hsbc.com.my/en-gb/my/generic/hsbc-labuanhttps://institutional.anz.com/markets/singapore/en/contact
Maybe @sujoe can let us know how easy it would be to open a bank account with one of these banks. When I researched a little on each of the banks it looks to me that they are not different from any other real "street" bank and for that reason may be complicated to open an account with as an foreigner.

I can be wrong, so please proof me wrong. My understanding from this list that it is just a random list, posted for what ever reasons, the banks here will refuse to open accounts for digital nomads, HK companies without substance or HK companies owned by foreigners.

Again, I can be wrong, so please tell me what is the truth.
 
I myself have a Labuan company and I have accounts at CIMB Malaysia and UOB Malaysia, granted I am a Malaysian Tax Resident.
HSBC Labuan could setup one for you at 300K Ringgit Minimum Deposit.
For some banks like CIMB, Maybank and RHB, non-resident directors could apply bank accounts for the Labuan company if you have a work permit, which could be issued by the Labuan company itself.
I have also been talking to the trust officer that helped me setup my labuan company, he could setup bank accounts for Labuan companies with non-resident directors at OCBC Malaysia and Singapore.

It is more of a matter of which bank officer you are connected to in the bank and it comes down to different relationships that are maintained by the trust company with the banks. In addition to that, different bank at different point in time have different policies, some of them will allow remote-opening last year but not anymore this year.
 
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A couple years ago a non resident could easily open a cimb account without work permit and with no minimum deposit. It might have changed today.

But anyway, labuan has changed now and you need a physical office there and spend a minimum of 50k-200k myr depending on industry to benefit of the 3% tax. Else you will be taxed as a mainland Malaysia company.