Goodbye to Dubai and all UAE Banks friendliness?

petal355 · Apr 14, 2021

Golden Fleece said:
Another possibility is entering into a long-term lease that you can show your home country. Perhaps pay someone $200 to $400 per month for the use of their extra bedroom, with their knowledge that you will only visit a few times a year. That is like free money for them.

So, for less than $5,000 per year you have a long-term lease as proof of residency. Perhaps you could also join some local clubs and organizations as additional proof of ties to the country, along with a local driver's license. And if you use a second passport for most of your travels, your home country passport would only show a few travel stamps.

Thanks 234, golden and Konstanz for the discussion.

In my example :

The idea is to respect the 183 days+ presence and have a real long term rental in the uae, as well as proofs as daily food delivery orders that show that you actually live there. To respect that honestly on this point.

However you opened a freezone in the mere purpose to get a visa, you conduct all your activities throught your physical person(day trading/investment). Or for some reason you just cannot get a bank account for your FZ. Thus you wouldnt be able to grant yourself a salary and obtain that certificate. From that discussion I understood that this tax residence certificate is neither enough, neither necessary to avoid problems from your citizenship country.

So from what Konstanz says it seems it is enough to simply live 183+ days in uae, avoid to trigger tax residence in your high tax citizenship country (own nothing there and dont come more than a few weeks per year on holidays per year). Then even if you become a person of interest and do not have a salary/ dividend/ active FZ for the reason aforementionned in uae and do not get the tax res certificate you are safe from your citizenship country ?

Fred · Apr 14, 2021

@petal355

With the things mentioned from you I have in a half decade never seen that a local UAE bank wouldn't open a Business Bank Account for the Freezone Company you own.

Even with ultra high-risk passport from Iran you can arrange this for the mentioned scenario from you.

My personal advise for you is don't escalate the things too much in theory and don't forget to enjoy life - what you have mentioned is already more then enough.

Davis123 · Apr 16, 2021

Konstanz said:
It will change sooner or later. EU will pressure when the first tax fraud cases appear in UAE.
I think we can expect these changes:
1. More difficult to get residence, by requiring real rental rental / property ownership. Real address. Not some fake address or stay at 'hotel'.
2. More monitoring on how long resident will have to stay to get tax residence certificate. 2 days will not be enough in the future.
3. Increased due diligence in banks.
4. Corporate income tax might appear in the future.
The existing model of 0% corporate tax cannot sustain forever.

After covid now governments in EU will try to collect more taxes and to shut down such tax heavens like UAE

This is real but I think UAE will also try very hard to keep it as it is as they know this is the only attraction they have and they can't let go of their business model. Corporate taxes might be something they can think of due to their own economy suffering but presently it will be like committing suicide. I think it's simply common sense for EU and other nations with strict tax laws to move to UAE full time and simply trying to cheat the system as it's not going to work forever.

Konstanz · Apr 16, 2021

Davis123 said:
This is real but I think UAE will also try very hard to keep it as it is as they know this is the only attraction they have and they can't let go of their business model. Corporate taxes might be something they can think of due to their own economy suffering but presently it will be like committing suicide. I think it's simply common sense for EU and other nations with strict tax laws to move to UAE full time and simply trying to cheat the system as it's not going to work forever.

Of course they will do everything to keep the same model. I am sure it will stay few years. But anyway, you should worry not about UAE changes, but about investigations by home country

Martin Everson · Apr 16, 2021

UAE is weak on the international stage its no Saudi let alone even a Qatar. It will be the whipping boy for the major nations as they chase tax cheats. They will do whatever the EU or US tells them to do. And it could happen overnight with a pen stroke as thats how the dictators...sorry rulers do business down there....lol.

Davis123 · Apr 16, 2021

Konstanz said:
Of course they will do everything to keep the same model. I am sure it will stay few years. But anyway, you should worry not about UAE changes, but about investigations by home country

I have nothing to worry dear as my everything is legit being a us citizen. . They know I am living here as I file everything every year and put up with their BS too.

Kakarot · Apr 20, 2021

Fred said:
Can't agree with this.

We have daily experience with the local banks and especially the bank account opening needs to be planned well. Bank policies changing frequently in terms of the onboarding conditions so what was working with one bank one year ago might not work nowadays.

When it comes to account closure we are not aware of any big waves of account closures lately by any bank and we still see many clients mention us that they are impressed how transactional the UAE banks are even if they do some type of transactions that doesn't make any sense for the business trade license they have in file with the bank and then still again we never seen a bank that closed the bank account from one day to another only because the transaction profile doesn't fit the company trade license. They are always asking for adding or changing the business activity within a timeframe before finally close the account.

In the past we have only seen two big waves of account closures - one was for all the offshore non-resident companies and the other for physical Gold trading business.

Beside of that there are two high risk activities we don't incorporate for our clients:
General Trading and Management Consultancy.

There is no official black listing like with the non resident offshore companies and physical Gold trading activity but to get any bank account open you need to bring several millions with you and even small banks without any prober mobile banking asking for 1m$ initial deposit.

Fred, you say General Trading is deemed high risk by the banks?

So that means you won't incorporate e commerce businesses?

Like if we buy products from asia, trade them to europe -- that's high risk and you wouldn't take on a client like that? And it would be risky to have a corporate transactional bank account in UAE for this kind of very common e-commerce business?

Fred · Apr 20, 2021

Kakarot said:
Fred, you say General Trading is deemed high risk by the banks?

So that means you won't incorporate e commerce businesses?

Like if we buy products from asia, trade them to europe -- that's high risk and you wouldn't take on a client like that? And it would be risky to have a corporate transactional bank account in UAE for this kind of very common e-commerce business?

We incorporate a lot of E-Commerce business and use a specific business activity code for it that explains the activity in detail.

General Trading needs to be used with some small emirates like Fujairah but with Dubai Freezone you have detailed business activity code.

That's the way to go otherwise if you choose General Trading you need to bring 1m$ and a business track record with you that the bank is willing to open an account for you because the wording of General Trading is simply too weak - could be literally everything and because of that the banks want to see much more paperwork.

Kakarot · Apr 20, 2021

Sorry Fred, I don't understand clearly. Can you elaborate please and be more specific?

What business activity code would we use in this case?

How much does it cost to form a company in Fujairah? I wouldn't be able to use the Dubai silicon free zone for a general trading company?

If I have to use Fujairah zone -- is that zone ok for getting corporate transactional bank accounts?

thanks for further details -- I would imagine a lot of your potential clients are trade businesses of some kind, and selling goods from one country to another -- so this might be crucial info for them.

Fred · Apr 20, 2021

Kakarot said:
Sorry Fred, I don't understand clearly. Can you elaborate please and be more specific?

What business activity code would we use in this case?

How much does it cost to form a company in Fujairah? I wouldn't be able to use the Dubai silicon free zone for a general trading company?

If I have to use Fujairah zone -- is that zone ok for getting corporate transactional bank accounts?

thanks for further details -- I would imagine a lot of your potential clients are trade businesses of some kind, and selling goods from one country to another -- so this might be crucial info for them.

No it's not.

Fujairah with Flexi Desk and General Trading without 1$m in funds and business track record will lead to simply don't get any business bank account in the UAE.

You can send an E-Mail to info@dls-dubai.com and get things setup right or you live with the fact that you limit yourself with your mentioned setup to overcharging EMI's that try to rip you off.

4br · Apr 21, 2021

Michaelpitt said:
I have UAQ FZ license and investor visa with the shiny flexi desk office.

Banks hate it and I am not able to get a bank account, neither personal (new ones are not possible, but I got one personal bank account from ENBD 2 years ago) nor a business bank account. How can I get a bank account? I am into the ecommerce space, no shady activity.

Have you tried Mashreq Neo Biz?

There are a few banks that take small businesses. I have guesses the government has shepherded these into existence.

I have a Mashreq Neo Biz account and it was very quick to setup. Only issue is that Mashreq require you to have an office or a personal address. No hotels. They do however, let you sign a letter to say you will have one within 90 days.

Their KYC was very light and I've not had issues moving in XX,XXX sums.

Another is RAKBANK. They went through everything with a fine comb, which included going through all the stock trades I did in my old company that had nothing to do with trading. Most of my trades were medical marijuana stocks or crypto ETNs.

I am based in DMCC. I chose that because I didn't want to get stuck in a situation where I could not get a bank account.

As for the title of this thread. I get regular emails from DMCC. Some were not good. There were some about ESG (environmental, social, governance). This is a scam being foisted by the OECD, WEF and the rest of the mafia. They are going to use it to regulate small business out of existance, because they can't hire enough blacks, women and throw enough money at Al Gore's gas tank as he gives a lecture about global warming or whatever they call it now. Also got the ones about AML, but it's only for certain companies like gemstones.

petal355 · Apr 21, 2021

Fred said:
@petal355

With the things mentioned from you I have in a half decade never seen that a local UAE bank wouldn't open a Business Bank Account for the Freezone Company you own.

Can you use the company as a mere visa provider and let it inactive without business bank while getting the residence for yourself and trade only on your name.

1) will the uae bank let you open and maintain personnals account if u dont get salary effectively transferred (inactiv fz) and without initial deposits, without obfuscating origin for 5-6 figures.

2) will you be able to open offshore online bank as swissquote to cashout crypto without obfuscating some 5-6 figures as a newly resident of uae without questions from the SQ or whatever Seba bankera on your previous residence or do you have to wait years ?

3) if yes will you be able to invest it later to stocks etc on IB or it wont be possible ?

4) will the uae bank question deposit from online bank in your name to ur personnal uae bank if its the same name for 5-6 figs ?

5) if its necessary to use organicly your company and grant you a salary can you simply lend your own crypto to the company and use it to pay a salary then without any workaround

Michaelpitt · Apr 21, 2021

4br said:
Have you tried Mashreq Neo Biz?

There are a few banks that take small businesses. I have guesses the government has shepherded these into existence.

I have a Mashreq Neo Biz account and it was very quick to setup. Only issue is that Mashreq require you to have an office or a personal address. No hotels. They do however, let you sign a letter to say you will have one within 90 days.

Their KYC was very light and I've not had issues moving in XX,XXX sums.

Another is RAKBANK. They went through everything with a fine comb, which included going through all the stock trades I did in my old company that had nothing to do with trading. Most of my trades were medical marijuana stocks or crypto ETNs.

I am based in DMCC. I chose that because I didn't want to get stuck in a situation where I could not get a bank account.

As for the title of this thread. I get regular emails from DMCC. Some were not good. There were some about ESG (environmental, social, governance). This is a scam being foisted by the OECD, WEF and the rest of the mafia. They are going to use it to regulate small business out of existance, because they can't hire enough blacks, women and throw enough money at Al Gore's gas tank as he gives a lecture about global warming or whatever they call it now. Also got the ones about AML, but it's only for certain companies like gemstones.

I have not tried it. I will try them when I visit UAE again.
What documents did RAK asked? Did they ask office or personal address?

Did DMCC Fz made it any better to get bank accounts? or you got hold of them without any lease certificate or ejari, or utility bill?

Nasters · Apr 22, 2021

petal355 said:
Can you use the company as a mere visa provider and let it inactive without business bank while getting the residence for yourself and trade only on your name.

1) will the uae bank let you open and maintain personnals account if u dont get salary effectively transferred (inactiv fz) and without initial deposits, without obfuscating origin for 5-6 figures.

2) will you be able to open offshore online bank as swissquote to cashout crypto without obfuscating some 5-6 figures as a newly resident of uae without questions from the SQ or whatever Seba bankera on your previous residence or do you have to wait years ?

3) if yes will you be able to invest it later to stocks etc on IB or it wont be possible ?

4) will the uae bank question deposit from online bank in your name to ur personnal uae bank if its the same name for 5-6 figs ?

5) if its necessary to use organicly your company and grant you a salary can you simply lend your own crypto to the company and use it to pay a salary then without any workaround

Interesting questions, waiting for the answer from @Fred

CoffeeCherryTea · May 19, 2021

Leave this here UAE to allow investors full ownership of companies from June 1

CaptK · May 19, 2021

Lucas0511 said:
Leave this here UAE to allow investors full ownership of companies from June 1

Have you seen the minimum investment that you have to put down?

Lowest listed investment AED 7M approximately $2M!!!

So you need to show that in the bank first and then you will have to demonstrate how that was spent it.

They know what they are doing, this is to encourage people with millions.

Golden Fleece · May 19, 2021

Lucas0511 said:
Leave this here UAE to allow investors full ownership of companies from June 1

Honestly, the fact that the country previously had such anti-captialist restrictions on businesses is a good reason to stay away from the country. What a government can grant, it can also take away. When will people ever learn? A nation's (or person's) past history is often a reliable indicator of their future conduct.

As per the new foreign direct investment regime, several categories of business licences will no longer require Emiratis as sponsors with 51 per cent shareholding rights from December 1.

CaptK · May 19, 2021

petal355 said:
Can you use the company as a mere visa provider and let it inactive without business bank while getting the residence for yourself and trade only on your name.

1) will the uae bank let you open and maintain personnals account if u dont get salary effectively transferred (inactiv fz) and without initial deposits, without obfuscating origin for 5-6 figures.

You can open a personal Bank account and hope the bank don't ask about salary.

petal355 said:
2) will you be able to open offshore online bank as swissquote to cashout crypto without obfuscating some 5-6 figures as a newly resident of uae without questions from the SQ or whatever Seba bankera on your previous residence or do you have to wait years ?

If you have not made a deposit into your exchange from your bank account. Your funds will be blocked if you send from the exchange.

petal355 said:
3) if yes will you be able to invest it later to stocks etc on IB or it wont be possible ?

4) will the uae bank question deposit from online bank in your name to ur personnal uae bank if its the same name for 5-6 figs ?

Yes they will ask, and want proof. If it's a proper bank account and not a broker then bit by bit.

petal355 said:
5) if its necessary to use organicly your company and grant you a salary can you simply lend your own crypto to the company and use it to pay a salary then without any workaround

How do you intend on seeding the bank account. You can not tell the bank it was a capital contribution in BTC.

Dandyline · May 20, 2021

CaptK said:
Have you seen the minimum investment that you have to put down?

Lowest listed investment AED 7M approximately $2M!!!

So you need to show that in the bank first and then you will have to demonstrate how that was spent it.

They know what they are doing, this is to encourage people with millions.

Source where the minimum investment requirement is stated?

mike400 · May 21, 2021

4br said:
Another is RAKBANK. They went through everything with a fine comb, which included going through all the stock trades I did in my old company that had nothing to do with trading. Most of my trades were medical marijuana stocks or crypto ETNs.

Hi, can you share your banker's contact who opened your business account at Rakbank? I'm trying to open an account there for almost 2 months with no luck...

Goodbye to Dubai and all UAE Banks friendliness?

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