First World Tax Agencies: What sort of AI tools they use to catch mismatching income and Tax evasion?

[HeinzKetchup69]

This is purely a out of curiosity post. Is there any info online on the tools they use and how they work?

 

[JackAlabama]

This is purely a out of curiosity post. Is there any info online on the tools they use and how they work?

they do mind reading

 

[daniels27]

It is mainly low tech. They just check the wealth increase and your salary and compare the difference to your expected living cost.

If you show off and the whole village knows your golden cars and bitches, they will investigate further because most people who work hard for money are less likely to waste it. Hence you are either a criminal or tax criminal.

 

[HeinzKetchup69]

It is mainly low tech. They just check the wealth increase and your salary and compare the difference to your expected living cost.

If you show off and the whole village knows your golden cars and bitches, they will investigate further because most people who work hard for money are less likely to waste it. Hence you are either a criminal or tax criminal.

bulls**t low tech. I know for a fact they cross monitor and check for wealth show off on all Instagram and Social network profiles (automatically) based of your name and registered phone number/email. to start with. God knows what else they can do. Especially in the USA/UK/AUS/DE countries.

 

[Martin Everson]

This is purely a out of curiosity post. Is there any info online on the tools they use and how they work?

Exactly Instagram and FB are easiest tools they use.

Look at this guy from UK posting on Instagram. Who needs AI when you got people doing this . But who knows maybe there is no mismatch in income and tax paid. He is innocent until proven guilty I guess .

https://www.instagram.com/gmg_yb/

 

[BarleyMalt]

Having worked for my country's tax office during a summer job, I had the occasion to ask the auditors how they selected their clients. You'd be surprised, but around 2/3 of the inquiries were done on denunciation basis. As a result:

- Don't have a social media account where you post content
- Never talk about what you do in details, or what you own.
- Never talk about your tax situation to anyone.

Be prepared to have good and simple stories when asked. Instead of saying you earn from affiliate links, say you do consulting for ecommerce websites. Instead of saying that you're a crypto dev, say that you make websites. If it is simple and boring, no one will care.

 

[HeinzKetchup69]

Exactly Instagram and FB are easiest tools they use.

Look at this guy from UK posting on Instagram. Who needs AI when you got people doing this . But who knows maybe there is no mismatch in income and tax paid. He is innocent until proven guilty I guess .

https://www.instagram.com/gmg_yb/

View attachment 7527

That's peanut money, how's that even flexing? I'm talking about guys on Instagram that always go around with Private jets and $2.5m dollar watches and show off trading accounts in the tens of millions. Then they mention on their Insta page that they based in London???

Having worked for my country's tax office during a summer job, I had the occasion to ask the auditors how they selected their clients. You'd be surprised, but around 2/3 of the inquiries were done on denunciation basis. As a result:

- Don't have a social media account where you post content
- Never talk about what you do in details, or what you own.
- Never talk about your tax situation to anyone.

Be prepared to have good and simple stories when asked. Instead of saying you earn from affiliate links, say you do consulting for ecommerce websites. Instead of saying that you're a crypto dev, say that you make websites. If it is simple and boring, no one will care.

Agree with this too.

 

[wellington]

Or just live in a tax advantaged state

 

[JackAlabama]

That's peanut money, how's that even flexing? I'm talking about guys on Instagram that always go around with Private jets and $2.5m dollar watches and show off trading accounts in the tens of millions. Then they mention on their Insta page that they based in London???

thats an easy one. Its starts with f...

 

[Martin Everson]

That's peanut money, how's that even flexing? I'm talking about guys on Instagram that always go around with Private jets and $2.5m dollar watches and show off trading accounts in the tens of millions. Then they mention on their Insta page that they based in London???

They could have been UK non-doms so could be no tax issue there.

But in general whistleblowers (i.e upset ex), social media is downfall of most people and provides a starting point or tax office. Otherwise tax agencies like HMRC can do the following.

https://www.kinsellatax.co.uk/12-ways-hmrc-can-find-out-if-are-a-tax-evader/
http://ig-legacy.ft.com/content/0f98bbc0-2db6-11e2-9988-00144feabdc0
This technique below sounds crazy

--- quote start

4 Faked numbers

The “chi squared” test is another tool sometimes used by inspectors to check the reliability of reported figures, including restaurants’ sales figures. This test, also known as Benford’s Law, is a means of testing the randomness of figures. In many real-life sources of data the number one occurs as the first digit about 30 per cent of the time, while larger numbers occur less frequently.

Unaware of this finding, fraudsters are likely to choose numbers that do not fit this pattern. Derek Allen, tax director of ICAS, the Scottish accountancy institute, says he first came across inspectors in Scotland using this test in 2003, when an inspector claimed that a restaurant’s sales were fabricated. But he queried the logic that a restaurant’s results should be random, describing it as a “pseudo scientific” argument.

--- quote end

 

[wellington]

That's peanut money, how's that even flexing? I'm talking about guys on Instagram that always go around with Private jets and $2.5m dollar watches and show off trading accounts in the tens of millions. Then they mention on their Insta page that they based in London???


Agree with this too.

1) normally the ones showing off trading accounts are fake and earning off signups and show prop cash

They also do photo shoots in jets, the watches likely real - it boggles the mind that luxury stores don’t do SOW - I know of a guy and girl posting non stop shopping from proceeds of a crypto scam on FB / instagram.

2) real wealth once you pass a certain point becomes a nuisance, a chain and ball - because you have to manage it and you recognise the people you get into manage it are just trying to nominally appreciate it for their % management fee and don’t give a hoot about underlying real value loss as number goes up nominally and they get their 2%

The s**t you buy with it ends up being continuous maintenance.

So you actually end up taking a full time job managing wealth and assets.

The morons that go out buying flexes end up becoming targets and even if innocent end up in heaps of investigations

Sure social media plays a part but usually it’s someone disgruntled

Exactly Instagram and FB are easiest tools they use.

Look at this guy from UK posting on Instagram. Who needs AI when you got people doing this . But who knows maybe there is no mismatch in income and tax paid. He is innocent until proven guilty I guess .

https://www.instagram.com/gmg_yb/

View attachment 7527

I remember when the company was setting up in Asia - we were buying blade servers and the companies selling were like mom and pop shops out of their front rooms in the secondary markets.

Alas I had to drive to the capital and they wanted cash so withdrew but stopped off on the way for a week at the in-laws - wife sent the car to the car wash - wasn’t aware and she wasn’t aware id stuck 60 grand in the back of the car for safety

Arrived in the city - was still there fortunately well mostly - was only as I pulled the boot up I realized - they took about 5k

Anyway point being that is short change for day to day ops for some people/companies.

 

[bubbledouble]

Wonder how difficult it is for AI software to go through social media sites and make matches and take out persons flashing the most, can't be difficult.

I also know that AI is able to go through bank accounts, tax reports credit card statements etc etc in seconds and spit out a tax evader that they can prosecute. That's why they hiring monkeys there.

 

[JackAlabama]

Wonder how difficult it is for AI software to go through social media sites and make matches and take out persons flashing the most, can't be difficult.

I also know that AI is able to go through bank accounts, tax reports credit card statements etc etc in seconds and spit out a tax evader that they can prosecute. That's why they hiring monkeys there.

this can only work if the data is clean.

 

[daniels27]

this can only work if the data is clean.

Yes. And most importantly, you can laugh the users. See my post at the very top. Only very few countries know which phones numbers belong to whom. In many countries such data is only with the telecom companies. How can they match anything?

As mentioned initially, in most countries what you ask for us done manually. Take Switzerland, the tax audit works on a village level. Not cantons, villages with 5000 residents. No, they do not invest in but AI. Also, the country works in self declaration, you can decide to not declare your Swiss bank account. They won't notice until the guy thinks that your money went down more than what you can spend.

Belgium, Luxembourg, Austria, etc. All it similar size. It is small and investments in AI simply do not pay off that fast like on the US or UK.

And even the notorious Germany works, as @BarleyMalt mentioned mainly from denunciations.

@Martin Everson the fake number test was in many newspapers in early 2000's, but the usefulness is limited.. On a personal declaration, there aren't many numbers and many things have set caps or hand given market value like a salary with a given distribution. For business in B2C, it won't work either as a restaurant or a supper market has a clear spend distribution, limited by the cheapest item and the amount you can carry out eat. Most McDonald's bills are the value of one menu times the number of people eating. It is however useful for B2B where there is a big variation of how much you can order. Take a graph with logarithmic axis and see how big the junk between 1 and 2 is compete to the rest, that's hot often you should have a number with 1 first. But is you were to fake it, would you really write RAND(1, 999999)? At least when looking at the result, you should see that you have to many big orders.

 

[Martin Everson]

2) real wealth once you pass a certain point becomes a nuisance, a chain and ball - because you have to manage it and you recognise the people you get into manage it are just trying to nominally appreciate it for their % management fee and don’t give a hoot about underlying real value loss as number goes up nominally and they get their 2%

Welcome to Credit Suisse wealth management. You also need to make sure the staff do not steal your money as a lot of these banks are straight criminal enterprises and money can go missing unnoticed for years.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...llion-georgia-prime-minister-case-2023-05-26/

But I have no doubt that first world tax agencies will develop sophisticated AI tools once everything becomes digitalized. It's not if but when.

 

[JackAlabama]

Yes. And most importantly, you can laugh the users. See my post at the very top. Only very few countries know which phones numbers belong to whom. In many countries such data is only with the telecom companies. How can they match anything?

As mentioned initially, in most countries what you ask for us done manually. Take Switzerland, the tax audit works on a village level. Not cantons, villages with 5000 residents. No, they do not invest in but AI. Also, the country works in self declaration, you can decide to not declare your Swiss bank account. They won't notice until the guy thinks that your money went down more than what you can spend.

Belgium, Luxembourg, Austria, etc. All it similar size. It is small and investments in AI simply do not pay off that fast like on the US or UK.

And even the notorious Germany works, as @BarleyMalt mentioned mainly from denunciations.

@Martin Everson the fake number test was in many newspapers in early 2000's, but the usefulness is limited.. On a personal declaration, there aren't many numbers and many things have set caps or hand given market value like a salary with a given distribution. For business in B2C, it won't work either as a restaurant or a supper market has a clear spend distribution, limited by the cheapest item and the amount you can carry out eat. Most McDonald's bills are the value of one menu times the number of people eating. It is however useful for B2B where there is a big variation of how much you can order. Take a graph with logarithmic axis and see how big the junk between 1 and 2 is compete to the rest, that's hot often you should have a number with 1 first. But is you were to fake it, would you really write RAND(1, 999999)? At least when looking at the result, you should see that you have to many big orders.

indeed, many countries wont need to because the social surveillance works way better than any tech surveillance ever will.

 

[bubbledouble]

bulls**t low tech. I know for a fact they cross monitor and check for wealth show off on all Instagram and Social network profiles (automatically) based of your name and registered phone number/email. to start with. God knows what else they can do. Especially in the USA/UK/AUS/DE countries.

I totally agree, AI is helping them to keep track on everything in an ease. It is a like a free ride, the AI will complete everything in a nice report and they can get the money from the tax payer without troubles regardless if the tax payer paid the due taxes or not. If the tax office is mistaken, you can't do anything, they always right and you can't fight them.

The beauty of a nasty world we live in.

 

[happyjohn]

The tax office wins always. AI is the new thing to get us all.