Compliance, acceptable residency

[Meta]

Place of residence is one of more important factors for various compliance departments. It's much more difficult to open a bank account if you live in Russia than if you live in France.

I have a few specific places in mind where I live / lived / consider moving / consider getting a residence permit and other papers. In your opinion, which ones are good and which ones are blacklisted?

Spain, UAE, Georgia, Thailand, Paraguay.

In my opinion the ranking would be (best to worst):
1. Spain. Perfectly fine in most cases, but high taxes.
2. Thailand. Not the best reputation, but a "real country" at least. It's easy to believe that one lives there.
3. UAE. Depending on a bank. Kind of rich but was on blacklists lately. I have seen some recommendations to compliance workers with effect of "It's easy to get UAE residence and people use it to dodge taxes. If you see one, ask for all residence permits that the person holds, ask how long he actually stays in UAE per year and be cautious".
4. Georgia. Small country, no taxes on foreign income, nobody have heard of the country actually.
5. Paraguay. Small country, no taxes on foreign income, nobody have heard of the country actually.

Of course it's country-specific. I remember Singaporean banks were happy assuming that I'm a resident of Thailand and disappointed to hear that while I spend lots of time there, I don't hold long-term visas ("We have lots of clients from Thailand, we understand regulations, but we would need head office approval for a client from your unusual jurisdiction").

Do you agree with my ranking? Cheers.

 

[Sols]

I agree with your #1 and #5 spot. As for the other three, the difference is either so small or so circumstantial it's hard to say.

Thailand is probably correct to rank second. There are some corruption and money laundering concerns, though.

UAE is well known for having wealthy expats. It also has a tax evasion and money laundering reputation problem.

Georgia is to some banks grouped with all other (non-EU) post-USSR countries as corrupt, risky, and suspicious.

You might be interested in Country Reports – KnowYourCountry

 

[Forester]

Of course it's country-specific.

I agree in full. E.g., in my opinion “western” banks currently evaluate lower Georgia than Paraguay, because of certain Georgian economic ties to Russia and possible attempts to circumvent anti-Russian sanctions.

Otherwise, I agree with your evaluation, except of the statements “nobody have heard of the country actually”. Any (at least) european bank clerk knows about Georgia and probably any person in LatAm is aware about Paraguay.

 

[JackAlabama]

Place of residence is one of more important factors for various compliance departments. It's much more difficult to open a bank account if you live in Russia than if you live in France.

I have a few specific places in mind where I live / lived / consider moving / consider getting a residence permit and other papers. In your opinion, which ones are good and which ones are blacklisted?

Spain, UAE, Georgia, Thailand, Paraguay.

In my opinion the ranking would be (best to worst):
1. Spain. Perfectly fine in most cases, but high taxes.
2. Thailand. Not the best reputation, but a "real country" at least. It's easy to believe that one lives there.
3. UAE. Depending on a bank. Kind of rich but was on blacklists lately. I have seen some recommendations to compliance workers with effect of "It's easy to get UAE residence and people use it to dodge taxes. If you see one, ask for all residence permits that the person holds, ask how long he actually stays in UAE per year and be cautious".
4. Georgia. Small country, no taxes on foreign income, nobody have heard of the country actually.
5. Paraguay. Small country, no taxes on foreign income, nobody have heard of the country actually.

Of course it's country-specific. I remember Singaporean banks were happy assuming that I'm a resident of Thailand and disappointed to hear that while I spend lots of time there, I don't hold long-term visas ("We have lots of clients from Thailand, we understand regulations, but we would need head office approval for a client from your unusual jurisdiction").

Do you agree with my ranking? Cheers.

the ranking is dependent on how many digits you are willing to gift to the banks.
If you let the bank manage your money (lets say 50M which they will put in their subpar fund products to get a good bonus while you have just a meager return) but you are retired in Burundi bc of your family being from there (and you do not do business there) they will fly to you to sign paperwork.

 

[Meta]

Thanks for the info! And especially the link Country Reports – KnowYourCountry

Otherwise, I agree with your evaluation, except of the statements “nobody have heard of the country actually”. Any (at least) european bank clerk knows about Georgia and probably any person in LatAm is aware about Paraguay.

Can't say about Paraguay. But I certainly had lots of conversations in Asia go like "Georgia? Is this a country? Are you sure?". Basically 100% of them Also a few in Europe.

the ranking is dependent on how many digits you are willing to gift to the banks.
If you let the bank manage your money (lets say 50M which they will put in their subpar fund products to get a good bonus while you have just a meager return) but you are retired in Burundi bc of your family being from there (and you do not do business there) they will fly to you to sign paperwork.

Nah, even if you have 50M it's easier to be a resident of Swtzerland, not Burundi.

Georgia is to some banks grouped with all other (non-EU) post-USSR countries as corrupt, risky, and suspicious.

That's a pity because it's not true I believe. Also they are not that friendly to Russians (though obviously many Russians are there). Just a few weeks ago a person with a Russian passport has visited three banks in Tbilisi. One declined personal account, one offered an account in GEL only and bank card working in the territory of Georgia only, the third one opened the accounts and issued the cards, but certainly no SWIFT transfers online, I gather no SWIFT transfers at all and most likely no money from Russia is welcome.

 

[Forester]

But I certainly had lots of conversations in Asia go like "Georgia? Is this a country? Are you sure?". Basically 100% of them Also a few in Europe.

Yes. In Asia it might be well possible, I am not experienced. In general, Georgia (country) is confused with Georgia (the US state) by many, many English speakers. In the US by close to 100% except really well educated people or Georgian expats
Also note that I have written “Any (at least) european bank clerk knows... ” (but it's an important fact).

Nah, even if you have 50M it's easier to be a resident of Swtzerland, not Burundi.

No doubts But with 50M many issues are manageable even from Burundi

That's a pity because it's not true I believe.

Very probably, it is not true to the comparable extent as for some other ex-USSR countries. (BTW, even some currently EU but ex-USSR or ex-Soviet bloc countries are considered risky and suspicious by some banks.) But – take it or leave it

Also they are not that friendly to Russians (though obviously many Russians are there).

Well, I do not maintain much personal contacts there in the last time; but IMO this depends. The society is remarkably divided re: this there.

Just a few weeks ago a person with a Russian passport has visited three banks in Tbilisi. One declined personal account, one offered an account in GEL only and bank card working in the territory of Georgia only, the third one opened the accounts and issued the cards, but certainly no SWIFT transfers online,

This is perfectly expectable. And in my deep opinion, the core background is not related to friendliness or hostility to Russians but to the concern about the relations with the correspondent banks and especially the ability to perform USD transfers. The fact that one bank offered an account in GEL only and bank card working in the territory of Georgia only illustrates this perfectly. They may or may not like Russians but they are mainly concerned about their general business that can be endangered if their western counterparts come to the conclusion that bank is breaking or circumventing the anti-Russian sanctions. Because it it true that a lot of Georgian business is related to the western countries, currently.

I gather no SWIFT transfers at all

Well, this is just my guess: SWIFT transfers – why not; but come to the bank and explain us that it is really not harmful so we will stay OK...

and most likely no money from Russia is welcome.

Well, I am convinced that money from Russia is welcome there (as almost anywhere) if and only if it does not endanger their other business, or at least not too much. Exceptions exist – created by subjects that really do not like Russia / Russians from political reasons (but this is not a majority in Georgia, IMO; Georgia is not Baltic).

 

[Meta]

Thanks for the comments! Yep, when saying "friendly to Russia", I had only political will / ability to do business in mind. Not personal attitudes of people, just purely business.

I will put it this way: in some countries (Kazakhstan lately for example) it's easier to get a company, bank account and trade. In Georgia it is not really. Well, offtopic.

 

[JackAlabama]

Thanks for the info! And especially the link Country Reports – KnowYourCountry

Can't say about Paraguay. But I certainly had lots of conversations in Asia go like "Georgia? Is this a country? Are you sure?". Basically 100% of them Also a few in Europe.



Nah, even if you have 50M it's easier to be a resident of Swtzerland, not Burundi.


That's a pity because it's not true I believe. Also they are not that friendly to Russians (though obviously many Russians are there). Just a few weeks ago a person with a Russian passport has visited three banks in Tbilisi. One declined personal account, one offered an account in GEL only and bank card working in the territory of Georgia only, the third one opened the accounts and issued the cards, but certainly no SWIFT transfers online, I gather no SWIFT transfers at all and most likely no money from Russia is welcome.

nah matter of fact is your residency only matters if youre poor.

 

[cusano]

nah matter of fact is your residency only matters if youre poor.

What is the threshold from where you are not considered poor anymore? How much is enough if your residency isn't in a high risk country. Residency in countries like #2 to #5 from the list.

 

[JackAlabama]

What is the threshold from where you are not considered poor anymore? How much is enough if your residency isn't in a high risk country. Residency in countries like #2 to #5 from the list.

depends on the country. Id say 100M is a safe starting point.

 

[jafo]

the ranking is dependent on how many digits you are willing to gift to the banks.
If you let the bank manage your money (lets say 50M which they will put in their subpar fund products to get a good bonus while you have just a meager return) but you are retired in Burundi bc of your family being from there (and you do not do business there) they will fly to you to sign paperwork.

Big Jack is dropping MAJOR real-life Wisdom and exposing bankers 100%
Brilliant!

depends on the country. Id say 100M is a safe starting point.

In my friends' and my experiences, 5M broke most "subjective moral & ethical" barriers bankers, lawyers, accountants, public servants, and regulators pretended to have!
In my friends' and my experiences, 10M broke EVERY "subjective moral & ethical" barrier bankers, lawyers, accountants, public servants, and regulators pretended to have!

I won't go into it with dozens of real-life examples that I've personally experienced, but you all get the point.

As other members have alluded to many times in the past, when we deal with bankers and others like them, be aware that you are dealing with criminal WH0R3$!
Everything is negotiable!

 

[Forester]

In my friends' and my experiences, 5M broke most "subjective moral & ethical" barriers bankers, lawyers, accountants, public servants, and regulators pretended to have!
In my friends' and my experiences, 10M broke EVERY "subjective moral & ethical" barrier bankers, lawyers, accountants, public servants, and regulators pretended to have!

Agreeing on both. The SoF naturally counts. If the cash is sufficiently clean, then with even 5+M anyone is fine. If not... well, perhaps even 10M need not be enough, let's double the threshold.

 

[Meta]

nah matter of fact is your residency only matters if youre poor.

Let us poor people who don't have $100'000'000 yet, discuss our petty problems...

 

[jafo]

Agreeing on both. The SoF naturally counts. If the cash is sufficiently clean, then with even 5+M anyone is fine. If not... well, perhaps even 10M need not be enough, let's double the threshold.

Do you remember about 2 or 3 years ago, we discussed me moving +1M I had in cash sitting in a Private Bank (PBA) account? Compliance found my cases on Thomson Reuters (TR). In particular, the indictment, but there was NO mention of the acquittal! The Feds sealed the acquittal. They sealed their loss and the loss of their employment etc.
So, the bank told me to take a hike.

Lo and behold, while trying to find a new bank and avoiding TR, PBA poached a VP of a competing bank. He called me to bring my portfolio along with him. I told him what happened. All of a sudden, PBA's compliance told me: You are welcome (again) . No SOF - No SOW - nothing! No questions asked. To this day, they have NOT even asked me a single question. They are a bunch of wh0r3$