Citizenship by Investment Question

[wellington]

Hi, currently looking at Citizenship by Investment for a Carib country, one of the things that came up, was the 'background checks', one of the parties is a national of a country that does now allow dual nationality and currently going through a dictatorial conversion, where people are simply rounded up and thrown in a hole, never to be seen again (unless dredged out of rivers wrapped in steel chicken wire and weighted), the entire reason for this for us is to secure an exit if it continues to deteriorate, does anyone have any experience around CbI?

As the last thing we need is the Gesapo / brownshirts rounding her up for starting the process.

 

[bizniz]

You raise a very valid issue. I have some experience so I will comment.

Normally the background check would not say what it is for. It is a similar type of background check that might be used if you re applying, let's say, for a financial services business license or even a job.

The people doing the background checks are professionals who should, in theory, also be sensitive to this. If you are talking about China it is not a problem at all.

But my advice for extra security would be to work with a well connected agent who will understand this and raise it with the respective Caribbean government ahead of time. They should be able to get an intelligent response and reassurance. If they don't, move to a different agent or a different country.

 

[wellington]

Thanks for the input Bizniz, just south of China but heavily under its influence increasingly and internal genocide ongoing.

 

[Martin Everson]

For CBI i.e Nevis and St Kitts program they rely on you providing what they need like criminal record report from police etc. Theres no one calling up your home country asking about your background. If you speak to a provider you will know in advance what and how much info you will be expected to submit.

 

[bizniz]

For CBI i.e Nevis and St Kitts program they rely on you providing what they need like criminal record report from police etc. Theres no one calling up your home country asking about your background. If you speak to a provider you will know in advance what and how much info you will be expected to submit.

Well that is partailly true. They certainly won't call up the home country asking about your background and that is what I mean... there shouldn't be any risk. However these agencies do have representatives on the ground or special country desks and they certainly might call ex employers, business partners etc and they might pull records from registries, courts etc to the extent that it is possible. If you think that could cause a problem, the thing to do is discuss it in advance.

 

[CaptK]

To expedite the process get a criminal record certificate from your country. What I do is say it is for a job with my company. Sometimes they request a letter so I would provide you one for the police.
It will need to be notarised by the police, courts or local embassy just for extra credibility.
We still run a Interpol check. Sometimes if you do not live in your country of birth then sometimes you can get away with a police check from your country of residence.
You would be surprised at what they accept if you tell them in advance.

 

[bizniz]

To expedite the process get a criminal record certificate from your country. What I do is say it is for a job with my company. Sometimes they request a letter so I would provide you one for the police.
It will need to be notarised by the police, courts or local embassy just for extra credibility.
We still run a Interpol check. Sometimes if you do not live in your country of birth then sometimes you can get away with a police check from your country of residence.
You would be surprised at what they accept if you tell them in advance.

Yes exactly. They will ask for a criminal record certificate anyway, but that doesn't mean they won't go digging further. My point was exactly that you should sit down and discuss this with the government (well actually your agent has to do this) in advance. Explain your concerns and that there are human rights issues etc. They are quite open to such concerns if you are open about it from the beginning.

 

[wellington]

From my understanding (emails going back and forth) this is carried out under a enhanced criminal background check with interpol, which naturally notifies the state we are in as they get requested for information, you pay for this as part of the package and don't actually involve yourself in the process (i went through a similar thing a year ago for a new 5yr visa, before the s**t hit the fan).

 

[CaptK]

From my understanding (emails going back and forth) this is carried out under a enhanced criminal background check with interpol, which naturally notifies the state we are in as they get requested for information, you pay for this as part of the package and don't actually involve yourself in the process (i went through a similar thing a year ago for a new 5yr visa, before the s**t hit the fan).

To an extent you are correct but not everything on local database is available to Interpol. For Comoros, St Kitts and Vanuatu the local police certificate is enough.
If your agent is competent enough it’s also the delivery of the file that can make or break the deal.
Tell them everything from the beginning before you pay and get some assurances before heading forward.

 

[bizniz]

From my understanding (emails going back and forth) this is carried out under a enhanced criminal background check with interpol, which naturally notifies the state we are in as they get requested for information, you pay for this as part of the package and don't actually involve yourself in the process (i went through a similar thing a year ago for a new 5yr visa, before the s**t hit the fan).

What you are paying for is an enhanced background check by a private company. By law, private companies do not have access to Interpol databases, but in the world of spooks you never really know.

Separately from the background checks, there might well be an Interpol check, but that is not actually what you are paying for. An Interpol check does not necessarily (but could) notify the state.

It is not strictly true that the local police certificate is "enough". It is part of the big picture. If we imagine I am the person responsible for the check, I am looking at a range of factors and writing up a report based on firm evidence that will then be presented to a committee. I am not necessarily going to follow the exact same procedure with all cases, because that would be too predictable and open to manipulation, and circumstances may be different. So there is no right or wrong answer - it is flexible. This is where I am saying you have to sit down with the Caribbean government and explain the special circumstances, and basically ask them to be especially discreet in your case with the country of origin.

If your agent is telling you that you are paying for an Interpol check that naturally notifies the state of origin, I suspect your agent is out of his depth, as most would be in this case. I would recommend you choose a different agent. By all means tell them everything before you pay, but don't realistically expect them to give you concrete answers before you pay, because this is serious work, not something an agent can be expected to do without a firm financial commitment.

 

[wellington]

The enhanced Background check is carried out by the Government....

A) Pre-Application Background Check:
- To initiate the process, you will be required to submit the following documents:
1) Passport Copies;
2) Completed pre-screen questionnaire (attached).
- After receiving these documents, they will be submitted for a Pre-Application background check. This normally takes a maximum of 24 hours.

B) Pre-Application Deposit and Client Agreement:
- If the pre-screen background check is all clear, it’s possible to formally initiate the process. At this point, an invoice will be issued and the pre-application deposit of xxxx should be made;
- A Client Facilitator Agreement between the Primary Applicant . should be signed.

C) Prepare and Submit Application:
- experienced consultants will assist you with each step of preparing your application, from gathering together all of the required documents, to filling in all of the required application forms;
- When your application is completely prepared and ready to be submitted the first payment (initial fees minus the pre-application deposit) should be paid;
- Your application will be submitted to the citizenship by investment unit;
- The comprehensive due diligence check is initiated, and the government processes the citizenship application.

D) Approval and Final Payment:
- An approval letter from the Government of xxx will be issued within 60 – 120 days informing you of your naturalisation as Antiguan citizens;
- Only upon approval of your application will you be required to make the second and final payment (donation amount);
- The passports will be issued within approximately one month and sent by secure and recorded delivery to an address of your choice;
-

 

[CaptK]

In theory you are told one thing, in practice it's completely different.
From experience (St Kitts and Vanuatu) the government do a check with local law enforcement but there are 3rd party companies that are used to issue a report based on the information you supply ( passport, bank statement and residency).
Interpol check is also done by this 3rd party company.
For example you can deliver a Vanuatu passport in 6 weeks start to finish if you have all the documents at the beginning.

 

[bizniz]

With respect this will be my last post on the topic because I've added what value I can. In what is posted above it does NOT say the background check is carried out by the government. It says: The comprehensive due diligence check is initiated, and the government processes the citizenship application. So it does not say one way or the other who does the DD check.

Of course the check is commissioned by the government, under their responsibility, so I guess you could argue under the rule of privity of contract that is 'carried out' by the government. However the government subcontract that to a private agency. And as I've already explained above, although a private company is involved, but ultimately it is the government who make the decision on whether to grant citizenship on a number of factors, not just one factor. At the end of the day who cares... it is not really relevant to the original question, which I already answered above.

 

[Martin Everson]

However these agencies do have representatives on the ground or special country desks and they certainly might call ex employers, business partners etc and they might pull records from registries, courts etc to the extent that it is possible.

Nonsense.

I know firsthand this is not case with Nevis Program.