China, Bitcoin and a New Era

[Granwasa]

Good morning fellow members,
Allow me to underline how the below opinion is strictly personal.
Any different idea is more than welcome.

Let's be synthetic.
Bitcoin has always been broadcasted as a freedom ship away from banks and governments' tyranny.
However, history teaches us that the system has never airdropped freedom. When it seems it does, it's most likely a troy horse.

My thoughts have been always focused on China, as the Bitcoin's creator.
They started planting seeds for global dominance decades ago. With the USA dying, the only player that could take its place and unify our nations is China.

On which pillars does our world stand on? Military, Economy and Currency.
Any country who has global aims must master all of them.
Let's take a look at the USA: first military power, satellites nations like EU or Middle East and the Dollar, the world most used currency.
China has already developed two pillars, a strong military and a great economy, with real colonies all around the globe.

The missing pillar? A global currency.

Bitcoin fits perfectly in a Chinese world's vision.
Anarchism and outsider are paralyzed, unlike with cash. Total surveillance on global finance.
All transfers are public, every coin leaves a trace and BTC mixers are useless.
What separate us from privacy oblivion? CRS.
Currently, more than 80% of the cryptocurrencies are hold on exchanges. When CRS will be applied, everything will be public. All your spending habits and transfers: fully traced.
Hiding your coins and identity will a hell of a job.

Bitcoin will be the first global coin for the first global empire.

Also with your own wallets, nothing changes. Every BTC address can be internationally flagged. Meaning that any major exchange will freeze your coins if deposited from such addresses.

Despite being still illegal in China, national BTC farms have always been on the edge of mining. Currently they control over 65% of the hash power. We all know how China works... Who really thinks, that the Gov would have allowed such proliferation, if considered a stability threat?

Now, a purely abstract observation. Satoshi Nakamoto is a Japanese sounding name. Given the historical sourness between the two countries, what better way to mislead from the true creator?

Lastly, I am aware of the Monero existence.
However, as said, I don't believe in given freedom. Monero in my view is a Chinese TOR, annually founded the US gov such as NSA. More here...

Get on board now.
The process is still relatively easy.
Create privacy-focused structures on as many exchanges as possible.
Forge financial freedom for your dynasty.

Granwasa.

 

[Granwasa]

As said in the beginning, any thoughts or opposite idea are more than welcome.

 

[Martin Everson]

Crypto whether its BTC or other in the hands of government is tyranny. You basically through crypto enslave humanity economically in a single sweep if people are forced to adopt it by government.

For those hoping for a blockchain world I would say they are insane if they value freedom. No one knows who created BTC and for me that matters more than how it is used. If I was to guess then it would be some US government agency that put it out there.

P.S The younger TWT, IG, FB, BTC generation have no concept of privacy or freedom anymore. They will happily put on shackles without seeing the dangers.

 

[bitman]

I would like to hear your thoughts about the last big thing(s) which were created as truly grassroots and not created as part of an "conspiracy" operation (not saying this as an insult, truly curious). It's possible monero/bitcoin were state sponsored creations, but they are both nowhere near perfect (With room for improvement) and quite possibly created by independant minds. Remember, it's very difficult to force creativity at gunpoint....thats what dictator tyrants don't understand. With technology it gets very interesting because it scales so well, so technically it may only take 1 super genius type person (once in a lifetime 200+ IQ type) to break everything eventually......for good or evil perhaps. I think those types of people would be difficult to control and manipulate, creatively speaking in this context.

 

[Txaxandlxaxwxyxexr]

Good morning fellow members,
Allow me to underline how the below opinion is strictly personal.
Any different idea is more than welcome.

Let's be synthetic.
Bitcoin has always been broadcasted as a freedom ship away from banks and governments' tyranny.
However, history teaches us that the system has never airdropped freedom. When it seems it does, it's most likely a troy horse.

My thoughts have been always focused on China, as the Bitcoin's creator.
They started planting seeds for global dominance decades ago. With the USA dying, the only player that could take its place and unify our nations is China.

On which pillars does our world stand on? Military, Economy and Currency.
Any country who has global aims must master all of them.
Let's take a look at the USA: first military power, satellites nations like EU or Middle East and the Dollar, the world most used currency.
China has already developed two pillars, a strong military and a great economy, with real colonies all around the globe.

The missing pillar? A global currency.

Bitcoin fits perfectly in a Chinese world's vision.
Anarchism and outsider are paralyzed, unlike with cash. Total surveillance on global finance.
All transfers are public, every coin leaves a trace and BTC mixers are useless.
What separate us from privacy oblivion? CRS.
Currently, more than 80% of the cryptocurrencies are hold on exchanges. When CRS will be applied, everything will be public. All your spending habits and transfers: fully traced.
Hiding your coins and identity will a hell of a job.

Bitcoin will be the first global coin for the first global empire.

Also with your own wallets, nothing changes. Every BTC address can be internationally flagged. Meaning that any major exchange will freeze your coins if deposited from such addresses.

Despite being still illegal in China, national BTC farms have always been on the edge of mining. Currently they control over 65% of the hash power. We all know how China works... Who really thinks, that the Gov would have allowed such proliferation, if considered a stability threat?

Now, a purely abstract observation. Satoshi Nakamoto is a Japanese sounding name. Given the historical sourness between the two countries, what better way to mislead from the true creator?

Lastly, I am aware of the Monero existence.
However, as said, I don't believe in given freedom. Monero in my view is a Chinese TOR, annually founded the US gov such as NSA. More here...

Get on board now.
The process is still relatively easy.
Create privacy-focused structures on as many exchanges as possible.
Forge financial freedom for your dynasty.

Granwasa.

Hello Grandwasa, you are always very interesting to read.

Could you sum a little on why you don't believe in Monero.

I have right now accounts in many exchange, some I open also after we spoke in another thread.

About the CRS, even if they don't apply right now, is highly probable that past transactions will be visible as soon as the apply it.
BTW there is also a very simple reason why no country need those information right now: most of the country make an audit of your taxpayers and reporting dues only from 3 to 7 years after the year of the transaction depending on different countries limitations regarding audit time limits.

"Create privacy-focused structures on as many exchanges as possible".
What do you mean exactly?

I am actually pretty much confident in crypto like monero or zcash also, those I think are going to be the safest way to keep money,

"Also with your own wallets, nothing changes. Every BTC address can be internationally flagged. Meaning that any major exchange will freeze your coins if deposited from such addresses".
Do you mean wallet on the exchange or private wallet accessible only with private keys (i think those ones cannot been frozen even if the creditor entity is a country)?

 

[Spinat]

Crypto whether its BTC or other in the hands of government is tyranny. You basically through crypto enslave humanity economically in a single sweep if people are forced to adopt it by government.

For those hoping for a blockchain world I would say they are insane if they value freedom. No one knows who created BTC and for me that matters more than how it is used. If I was to guess then it would be some US government agency that put it out there.

P.S The younger TWT, IG, FB, BTC generation have no concept of privacy or freedom anymore. They will happily put on shackles without seeing the dangers.

I love to read your posts Martin, but I don't understand why you take up all the negative about the Crypto

 

[Martin Everson]

I love to read your posts Martin, but I don't understand why you take up all the negative about the Crypto

My logic is always that the principle of distributed ledger technology (DLT) or crypto is good. But if controlled, supervised and regulated by any state it is very dangerous and will lead to total tyranny.

When you see a new technology extrapolate from it how it can be used for oppression, surveillance, subversion etc. Take FBI book or Facebook/Whatsapp as people like to call it. This is the biggest collection of personal information and peoples thoughts in the world given freely by people who have no idea. FB looks at your whatsapp msgs, sites you visit, who you know via downloading your entire phone book, what you are saying, examining your photos using facial recognition to determine all your acquaintances etc. They could literally take a picture of you at the airport and know everyone you know and everything you have said, sites you visited, places you gone, your political, religious affiliation and your views in general. Then they put out misleading information that they only hand over data with court requests etc. Well they would never tell you the truth or anything that might stop you from revealing personal information on their platform

The same logic applies to DLT or crypto. I very much doubt whoever was behind it designed it for good.

 

[JohnLocke]

The same logic applies to DLT or crypto. I very much doubt whoever was behind it designed it for good.

second that part and the rest, we live in a dangerous world.

 

[Clip]

My thoughts have been always focused on China, as the Bitcoin's creator.
They started planting seeds for global dominance decades ago. With the USA dying, the only player that could take its place and unify our nations is China.

Based on some research, he was probably Canadian or lived in North America. Used words like "bloody" and texted mostly on MST timezone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_Nakamoto#Characteristics_and_identity

The missing pillar? A global currency.

Bitcoin was invented to help casinos to do banking

Despite being still illegal in China, national BTC farms have always been on the edge of mining. Currently they control over 65% of the hash power. We all know how China works... Who really thinks, that the Gov would have allowed such proliferation, if considered a stability threat?

China allows you to make money with mining, so you can get fresh USD that they can collect via taxes. But fobids you to use Bitcoin for getting money outside the country

 

[Granwasa]

Good morning gentlemen,

"Create privacy-focused structures on as many exchanges as possible".

What privacy-focused structures mean? It means opening accounts on exchanges, with "friends and family" documents and with companies that do not show your identity i.e. nominee structures or "friends and family" shareholders. The on-boarding process is still very easy, so act now.

I am actually pretty much confident in crypto like monero or zcash

As said, I do not believe in given freedom. In my view, this coins are like the Tor Project, annually founded by the US gov.

Do you mean wallet on the exchange or private wallet accessible only with private keys

All BTC address can be flagged. Coins deposited from such addresses on Exchanges, will be freezed.

Lastly @blueweb, I agree that crypto has a lot of bright sides. The right moves now, could create enormous financial liberty.

 

[CryptoInvestZZ]

My logic is always that the principle of distributed ledger technology (DLT) or crypto is good. But if controlled, supervised and regulated by any state it is very dangerous and will lead to total tyranny.

When you see a new technology extrapolate from it how it can be used for oppression, surveillance, subversion etc. Take FBI book or Facebook/Whatsapp as people like to call it. This is the biggest collection of personal information and peoples thoughts in the world given freely by people who have no idea. FB looks at your whatsapp msgs, sites you visit, who you know via downloading your entire phone book, what you are saying, examining your photos using facial recognition to determine all your acquaintances etc. They could literally take a picture of you at the airport and know everyone you know and everything you have said, sites you visited, places you gone, your political, religious affiliation and your views in general. Then they put out misleading information that they only hand over data with court requests etc. Well they would never tell you the truth or anything that might stop you from revealing personal information on their platform

The same logic applies to DLT or crypto. I very much doubt whoever was behind it designed it for good.

That logic can only be true for the new, government issued cryptocurrency. Like something China is trying to do. With BTC and some other cryptos, there is no central authority or CEO like in Facebook, who you can regulate. So how do you apply same logic to crypto? Second point, current FIAT currencies are quickly moving into cashless transactions, where you have the same level of control and transparency.

My thoughts have been always focused on China, as the Bitcoin's creator.
They started planting seeds for global dominance decades ago. With the USA dying, the only player that could take its place and unify our nations is China.

On which pillars does our world stand on? Military, Economy and Currency.
Any country who has global aims must master all of them.
Let's take a look at the USA: first military power, satellites nations like EU or Middle East and the Dollar, the world most used currency.
China has already developed two pillars, a strong military and a great economy, with real colonies all around the globe.

The missing pillar? A global currency.



Granwasa.

Cannot agree on that. There is huge difference between USA interest in USD as global currency and China interest in BTC as global currency. You simply cannot mint new bitcoins and sanction banks through a system of correspondent banks, like you can with USD. Also, BTC as a global currency is a meme, it is only good as store of value, a digital gold. Not a currency. Clearly, you underestimate crypto use cases. I can agree on the part of transparency of DLT to be used to better spy on citizens, but its already being done anyway.

 

[Martin Everson]

With BTC and some other cryptos, there is no central authority or CEO like in Facebook, who you can regulate. So how do you apply same logic to crypto?

Your speaking the obvious mantra on BTC that everybody knows. However like I said no one knows who really created BTC and thats an important concern.

Second point, current FIAT currencies are quickly moving into cashless transactions, where you have the same level of control and transparency.

Can you explain more please?

 

[CryptoInvestZZ]

Your speaking the obvious mantra on BTC that everybody knows. However like I said no one knows who really created BTC and thats an important concern.

Well, this is not mantra, but rather a fact that basically eliminates your concern. Clarify why it is important to know who created BTC if this is open source code, which anybody, including us can verify for any backdoor and doesnt have any central point of control. Otherwise, it sounds like it is important concern because it is important concern.

Can you explain more please?

Sure. Lets take China as an example. 90% of transactions are made through Wechat and Alipay, which in turn provide all that data to CCP. And many first world countries are moving forward with various measures and regulations that will limit cash transactions to small purchases only, which makes it impractical for operations with big sums. If you follow the trend, its easy to see where it is going and underlying technology that will be used to track ppls money flow doesn't matter that much.

 

[Martin Everson]

Clarify why it is important to know who created BTC if this is open source code, which anybody, including us can verify for any backdoor and doesnt have any central point of control.

Agenda thats why. One needs to know who created it to know the agenda. You are the perfect sheep as you don't question why you just accept the current benefits.

Sure. Lets take China as an example. 90% of transactions are made through Wechat and Alipay, which in turn provide all that data to CCP. And many first world countries are moving forward with various measures and regulations that will limit cash transactions to small purchases only, which makes it impractical for operations with big sums. If you follow the trend, its easy to see where it is going and underlying technology that will be used to track ppls money flow doesn't matter that much.

China is very different to rest of the world. I think you understood it wrong about China. It is smart move by them to secure its financial system independence with homegrown local digital payment methods. Pretty much every other developed country that is dependent on digital payments uses Visa or MasterCard (which are both US companies with local entities). Some developing countries have their own homegrown payment platform also . However those countries using Visa and MasterCard have handed control of their financial system to the US and no longer have an independent digital payment system sadly. If you go cashless with just a Visa or MasterCard network and if US decides to blacklist you then your locked out of those payment networks....lol.

Btw cash is going to be around for a little while longer.

 

[CryptoInvestZZ]

Agenda thats why. One needs to know who created it to know the agenda. You are the perfect sheep as you don't question why you just accept the current benefits.

BTC is a tool. Its very clear how it works and its close to impossible to change the rules, because in case of BTC, its code is a law. That is why when some group of people like Bitmain and Roger Ver wanted to have different agenda, they ended up forking BTC and starting different chain, which nobody uses. You do not need to know who created concept of money to use it as a tool, right? You also do not need to know who created math or physics, to use it in your everyday life. There is no agenda behind it, its a law. I would love to hear what your questions in regard to "why BTC", for the reference. So far your comments about crypto only indicate that you do not understand what it is and how it works. You also need to understand that some of the great tools were developed without any evil agenda or governments behind it, different people have different motivation. That doesnt mean that governments cannot try to use in their "evil" ways, but that would apply to concepts of national cryptocurrencies as discussed above. To be clear, there are plenty of issues with BTC and crypto in general, but it is certainly not an anonymity of creator.

China is very different to rest of the world. I think you understood it wrong about China. It is smart move by them to secure its financial system independence with homegrown local digital payment methods. Pretty much every other developed country that is dependent on digital payments uses Visa or MasterCard (which are both US companies with local entities). Some developing countries have their own homegrown payment platform also . However those countries using Visa and MasterCard have handed control of their financial system to the US and no longer have an independent digital payment system sadly. If you go cashless with just a Visa or MasterCard network and if US decides to blacklist you then your locked out of those payment networks....lol.

Btw cash is going to be around for a little while longer.

I have never discussed with you the reasons as to why China designed their financial system the way the did. Instead, it was good illustration on how governments already have huge amount of control over money transmitting and banks. I am surprised that we even argue about that. I ended up on this forum to find solution how to optimize my tax burden and assets safety for a reason. People end up moving to tax free zones, because they are allowed not to pay taxes by law, not because they can hide their assets/transactions there.

 

[Martin Everson]

You do not need to know who created concept of money to use it as a tool, right?

The fiat I have in my hand I know who created it and why. Your point is terrible.

You also do not need to know who created math or physics, to use it in your everyday life.

Maths and physics was not created but discovered .

Oh boy...you are so sold on this man made piece of code called BTC that you lost your mind.

 

[jscargo]

I don't believe China is going to take over anything. What seems to be happening more and more is, whatever there will be in China, won't be elsewhere. Whatever will be elsewhere won't be in China.

Evidences behind this:
- China making enemies in the region (basically all countries with the exception of Pakistan, Cambodia and DPRK).
- Skyrocketing anti-Chinese sentiment in Asia and in the West.
- Other ASEAN countries and India growing at a higher pace than China for some consecutive years (with Chinese numbers very likely to be rigged/bloated).
- Growing need for China to impose surveillance on its citizens, which are 1.4 bi, this is not an easy task. Reducing individual freedoms, China will reduce creativity, then innovation, and finally become unable to compete in most science fields with mass exodus of the brightest minds (just like as it happened in CCCP).

The greatest enemy of China is its own system, and it must raise the stakes at every step.

Regarding BTC, I believe technology is always running at a faster pace than regulations. But, if regulations continue to soar, a childless future is on the way (as it is already happening in Japan, South Korea, Central and Eastern Europe).

 

[Martin Everson]

Evidences behind this:
- China making enemies in the region (basically all countries with the exception of Pakistan, Cambodia and DPRK).
- Skyrocketing anti-Chinese sentiment in Asia and in the West.
- Other ASEAN countries and India growing at a higher pace than China for some consecutive years (with Chinese numbers very likely to be rigged/bloated).
- Growing need for China to impose surveillance on its citizens, which are 1.4 bi, this is not an easy task. Reducing individual freedoms, China will reduce creativity, then innovation, and finally become unable to compete in most science fields with mass exodus of the brightest minds (just like as it happened in CCCP).

You raise some good points here. However none of these will affect China in the long term especially Anti-Chinese sentiment. You see China "produces" and has not yet even tapped into demand in its huge internal market if the west don't want want it produces....lol. You can isolate China, sanction it and well it will make little difference as China produces, develops and owns abroad what it needs. With huge discovered gas reserves it is likely to be energy independent in future. The west can only look forward to a future of being food and premium goods exporters into that market sadly .