Brokers outside of EU to protect money from EU and home country

[someone123456]

hi all,

here's my situation

• I am a resident of an EU country, which is my home country.
• my home country and the EU are currently extremely nuts about regulations and taxes and it's only gonna get worse.
• I save for retirement with low risk MSCI world ETFs. this is going very well recently
• My future is not in my home country and probably not within the EU, but somewhere else. I do not yet know where. probably a cheaper country with more freedom. so not necessarily the US, switzerland etc.
• my current broker is within my home country

what I'm looking for

• I'm looking for ways to move money out of the EU to serious and safe countries and brokers to diversify my money across the globe.
• Ideally I'm looking for safe harbors where my money is respected, safe and neither my home country nor the EU have any way of confiscating my money to finance their absurd politics and take away my retirement.
• My retirement strategy is broad ETFs, that's why I'm looking for safe countries as well as serious and reputable brokers in those locations.
• My money is after-tax money. it's all 100% legal. that's why I'm looking for 100% legal solutions only.
• Maybe a solution could be distributing my ETFs between EU, US and Singapore. sadly I'm not that knowledgeable in where the money is safe and most likely will be safe from the EU as well as local governments. then of course the question is which brokers to choose there

what I'm not looking for

• I'm not looking for anything illegal.
• although I do like crypto and have some myself, I'm not looking to invest my money in crypto. I do not wish to discuss why in this thread. please respect that.

any tips would be great. safeguards for private investors in case of failing banks or brokers would also be amazing.
thank you so much for taking your time to read my post and of course thanks as well to anybody who takes the time to post a constructive response!

 

[Joukilop]

Hey mate,

After reading your post.

You said not invest in crypto. However, may you accept stablecoins? Because with this way, the day you would leave your country to the new ones. It will be easy to cashout there and avoid any tax.

 

[someone123456]

Hey mate,

After reading your post.

You said not invest in crypto. However, may you accept stablecoins? Because with this way, the day you would leave your country to the new ones. It will be easy to cashout there and avoid any tax.

thanks for your response. no stablecoins. only broad ETFs is the desired goal.

 

[Sols]

If you're comfortable parting with at least 100,000 EUR, you can try opening accounts with banks like DBS, OCBC, UOB, HSBC, and Hang Seng in Singapore and Hong Kong. You will likely need to appear in person to complete the account opening but you can try to initiate the process remotely. You can do your investments through them and/or pair it with an account at IBKR or some other broker.

Doing so is completely legal, provided that the money you wire into the account is clean, and provided that you continue to pay the taxes you are liable to pay where you live. Most likely, you're not looking at any tax savings with just this strategy. But at least your money won't be in EU when you finally decide to move.

If you want to put your money somewhere where you can accrue income/interest on the money without paying tax on that interest/income where you live, things get more complicated. Then you'll need a more sophisticated structure.

 

[avalanche]

hi all,

here's my situation

• I am a resident of an EU country, which is my home country.
• my home country and the EU are currently extremely nuts about regulations and taxes and it's only gonna get worse.
• I save for retirement with low risk MSCI world ETFs. this is going very well recently
• My future is not in my home country and probably not within the EU, but somewhere else. I do not yet know where. probably a cheaper country with more freedom. so not necessarily the US, switzerland etc.
• my current broker is within my home country

what I'm looking for

• I'm looking for ways to move money out of the EU to serious and safe countries and brokers to diversify my money across the globe.
• Ideally I'm looking for safe harbors where my money is respected, safe and neither my home country nor the EU have any way of confiscating my money to finance their absurd politics and take away my retirement.
• My retirement strategy is broad ETFs, that's why I'm looking for safe countries as well as serious and reputable brokers in those locations.
• My money is after-tax money. it's all 100% legal. that's why I'm looking for 100% legal solutions only.
• Maybe a solution could be distributing my ETFs between EU, US and Singapore. sadly I'm not that knowledgeable in where the money is safe and most likely will be safe from the EU as well as local governments. then of course the question is which brokers to choose there

what I'm not looking for

• I'm not looking for anything illegal.
• although I do like crypto and have some myself, I'm not looking to invest my money in crypto. I do not wish to discuss why in this thread. please respect that.

any tips would be great. safeguards for private investors in case of failing banks or brokers would also be amazing.
thank you so much for taking your time to read my post and of course thanks as well to anybody who takes the time to post a constructive response!

Tigerbrokers

 

[someone123456]

If you're comfortable parting with at least 100,000 EUR, you can try opening accounts with banks like DBS, OCBC, UOB, HSBC, and Hang Seng in Singapore and Hong Kong. You will likely need to appear in person to complete the account opening but you can try to initiate the process remotely. You can do your investments through them and/or pair it with an account at IBKR or some other broker.

Doing so is completely legal, provided that the money you wire into the account is clean, and provided that you continue to pay the taxes you are liable to pay where you live. Most likely, you're not looking at any tax savings with just this strategy. But at least your money won't be in EU when you finally decide to move.

If you want to put your money somewhere where you can accrue income/interest on the money without paying tax on that interest/income where you live, things get more complicated. Then you'll need a more sophisticated structure.

thank you for your extensive answer. as stated, the money is 100% clean and legal. Hong Kong is to risky now that it is being fully controlled by China, but Singapore is a good option I guess. I'll look into the banks you mentioned!

 

[someone123456]

would anybody know how secure money in switzerland is for an EU citizen? how would you rate the chance of switzerland forwarding information about accounts of EU citizens to the EU?

 

[FiscalFanatic]

would anybody know how secure money in switzerland is for an EU citizen? how would you rate the chance of switzerland forwarding information about accounts of EU citizens to the EU?

The days of Swiss bank secrecy are long gone, so don't count on any privacy regarding that matter. Just treat Switzerland as another EU country

 

[Houdini]

would anybody know how secure money in switzerland is for an EU citizen? how would you rate the chance of switzerland forwarding information about accounts of EU citizens to the EU?

Switzerland no longer has bank secrecy and hasn’t had it for over a decade, so forget about that aspect when it comes to banking. There are stable banks in Switzerland, just as there are in any other country, but nothing beyond that.

 

[Marie Manila]

would anybody know how secure money in switzerland is for an EU citizen? how would you rate the chance of switzerland forwarding information about accounts of EU citizens to the EU?

Switzerland takes part in CRS.
Also have a look at the Lugano Convention.

 

[JackAlabama]

would anybody know how secure money in switzerland is for an EU citizen? how would you rate the chance of switzerland forwarding information about accounts of EU citizens to the EU?

if that is what youre interested in. You need to uproot yourself and move.
Not one countries banks mentioned here will keep your info private.

 

[Clank]

Another option would be opening a US LLC and a brokerage account for the LLC.

There won’t be any CRS or FATCA reporting.

Nevertheless when you send money to the LLC from your bank account it will leave traces.

You can do it with crypto.

 

[Revoltec]

Unfortunately, there is no banking secrecy anymore. Information is widespread between countries.

In Switzerland at least, for now, your assets cannot get seized because of a tax debt but they can in case there is a legal process.

In Singapore your assets cannot get seized but they can get frozen for 10 years or more and then seized after that if your home country is smart enough to execute correctly.

If there is no CRS and FATCA then there is seizure of assets and 'spontaneous exchange of information' through the OECD Convention and information exchange through tax treaties, information exchange treaties. The chance of finding a setup that dodges all of these above is very slim.

The best option I've found is going with Belarus as long as there is no tax treaty or information exchange treaty with your home country, but then you have to deal with sanctions.

 

[brianK]

What about Montenegro, it should be right now the same as Belarus! ?

 

[Revoltec]

What about Montenegro, it should be right now the same as Belarus! ?

I have not followed. They are still part of the OECD Convention and have a big amount of tax treaties since the time of Yugoslavia. Why is it good now?

Also, keep in mind, that when jurisdictions enter information exchange programs, in a majority of cases they are applied retroactively as well. The only exclusion from this was Switzerland and the EU (of what I know)