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Suitable structure/residency for active trader (Stocks, futures, options)

#41
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RAGAV said:
Copying your post from the other thread. If there is a risk of doing business in UAE, where can I open an offshore entity? Can I control the offshore entity from UAE to avoid regulatory/license risk?
Click to expand...

I honestly wouldn't worry too much about this at this point.
I would try reaching out to UAE-based traders. I'm sure there are groups on Meetup, Facebook etc.
See what they do.

Of course you can also set up a BVI company or something like that and use that to trade, but I would guess that they would still report you under CRS as the UBO. So not sure how much of a difference that would really make.
 
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#42
JustAnotherNomad said:
I honestly wouldn't worry too much about this at this point.
I would try reaching out to UAE-based traders. I'm sure there are groups on Meetup, Facebook etc.
See what they do.

Of course you can also set up a BVI company or something like that and use that to trade, but I would guess that they would still report you under CRS as the UBO. So not sure how much of a difference that would really make.
Click to expand...

I am thinking of obtaining a freelancer visa from one of the emirates in UAE and trade in my personal name. Open a bank account in another EU country while residing in UAE.

If at all UAE authorities find any issue about misuse of license/[or not taking appropriate license for trading derivatives in personal account], I might be subject to penalties but they would not be able be able to freeze my funds in foreign banks, right? As another poster mentioned in another thread, the best option would then be to buy a one way flight ticket out of UAE and get out.

Can you also provide another suitable easier residency option in a safe EU country with low taxes [either corporate or personal] in any EU country if I rule out UAE? [Ex. Malta, Estonia, Cyprus, Portugal]
Some Asian countries are attractive for expats but the time zone to trade US markets is not convenient.

Will my trading profits be considered foreign-sourced income? Asking this because I read that there are some countries like Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, Thailand, Portugal that don't tax foreign-sourced income.
 
#43
JustAnotherNomad said:
I honestly wouldn't worry too much about this at this point.
I would try reaching out to UAE-based traders. I'm sure there are groups on Meetup, Facebook etc.
See what they do.

Of course you can also set up a BVI company or something like that and use that to trade, but I would guess that they would still report you under CRS as the UBO. So not sure how much of a difference that would really make.
Click to expand...
Theoretically you can also structure the entity in such way to avoid reporting.
RAGAV said:
I am thinking of obtaining a freelancer visa from one of the emirates in UAE and trade in my personal name. Open a bank account in another EU country while residing in UAE.

If at all UAE authorities find any issue about misuse of license/[or not taking appropriate license for trading derivatives in personal account], I might be subject to penalties but they would not be able be able to freeze my funds in foreign banks, right? As another poster mentioned in another thread, the best option would then be to buy a one way flight ticket out of UAE and get out.

Can you also provide another suitable easier residency option in a safe EU country with low taxes [either corporate or personal] in any EU country if I rule out UAE? [Ex. Malta, Estonia, Cyprus, Portugal]
Some Asian countries are attractive for expats but the time zone to trade US markets is not convenient.
Click to expand...
EU residency might be unreasonably costly, but if you obtain a long term schengen D visa you can easily open a bank account.
For example a digital nomad visa, if you meet the requirements.
D visa is possible to apply also on the general basis if you build some substance and have sufficient savings/income.

You might also want to look into UAE golden visa.
 
#44
RAGAV said:
I am thinking of obtaining a freelancer visa from one of the emirates in UAE and trade in my personal name. Open a bank account in another EU country while residing in UAE.
Click to expand...

Why EU? I would just go with IBKR, probably.

RAGAV said:
If at all UAE authorities find any issue about misuse of license/[or not taking appropriate license for trading derivatives in personal account], I might be subject to penalties but they would not be able be able to freeze my funds in foreign banks, right? As another poster mentioned in another thread, the best option would then be to buy a one way flight ticket out of UAE and get out.
Click to expand...

How would they even find out? But note that you would have to file things for the freelance visa as well.
I know some people were asked to file a UBO report including an organizational chart. For a freelancer! You will be dealing with people with very low education, mostly from South Asia and the Philippines.
You would have to check if you have to file corporate tax returns for the freelancer visa, and you would also have to check if you have to register for VAT, or if you can opt out somehow.

I really would recommend you to reach out to other traders and just see what they do, how they are set up and why.

RAGAV said:
Can you also provide another suitable easier residency option in a safe EU country with low taxes [either corporate or personal] in any EU country if I rule out UAE? [Ex. Malta, Estonia, Cyprus, Portugal]
Some Asian countries are attractive for expats but the time zone to trade US markets is not convenient.
Click to expand...

I would rule out Estonia, but I know that Cyprus especially is very popular. Probably Malta would work as well, and maybe also Portugal with the right structure.
I have heard that you can even combine Cyprus with residency in Austria, but I don't remember the details.
I also don't know how easy it would be for you to obtain residency there without an EU passport.

RAGAV said:
Will my trading profits be considered foreign-sourced income? Asking this because I read that there are some countries like Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, Thailand, Portugal that don't tax foreign-sourced income.
Click to expand...

I believe some of them don't have capital gains tax? But maybe it's different with active trading.
In theory, it shouldn't be foreign income if you run things from that country, but in practice, especially less developed countries (Malaysia, Thailand for example) don't enforce this and will often treat all income as foreign if it comes from a company that is registered abroad.
 
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#45
JustAnotherNomad said:
Of course you can also set up a BVI company or something like that and use that to trade, but I would guess that they would still report you under CRS as the UBO. So not sure how much of a difference that would really make.
Click to expand...
I assume reporting me under CRS is technically not a concern as I would be paying 9% corporate tax in UAE. Will license/regulatory risk increase if I trade in offshore entity due to CRS?
 
#46
JustAnotherNomad said:
Why EU? I would just go with IBKR, probably.
Click to expand...
I wanted to open a bank account in a foreign country (other than UAE) to transfer funds/receive funds to/from IBKR. I don't want to use my Indian bank account directly to fund IBKR or receive funds from IBKR in it directly when I am no longer a tax resident in India. That is the reason, in one of the earlier posts, I asked about opening an account in another country without being a resident there. [Did not want to use UAE banking]

I explored Portugal D7 visa requirements. The monthly income requirements are low, I thought of using my savings (which can last 3 years according to cost of living estimates) as proof instead of frequent monthly income. D7 visa also allows me to work or start a business without any restrictions.

I know a CA in UAE who should be able to help me out with the VAT/accounting/audits/freelancer visa etc. I reached out to couple of Indians there who are trading on their personal accounts from a long time. However, I guess in the past, it did not matter as there was no corporate/income tax. Not sure if license requirements may change in the future after introduction of corporate tax.
 
#48
Mercury said:
You may want to check Dukascopy Bank for personal account.
Click to expand...

@PhantomOf ThePits had a good list earlier:
PhantomOf ThePits said:
Ibkr.com
Sygnum.com
Swissquote.com
Saxobank.ae
Aminagroup.com
Bankfrick.com
For example as uaeA Resident
Click to expand...

But please read my post here
D

Post in thread 'Need virtual personal IBAN for non-EU citizens'

No serious bank will ever accept you. You will find some small bank maybe that does not know that you are trying to circumvent rules and give you an account. Few weeks later when the CRS report arrived in India, we will have you back here claiming that India seized your money but you did not do nothing.

India has strict rules on Indians opening accounts elsewhere and elsewhos opening accounts in India. My personal advice: unless you are eligible under your countries rules to open such account, abstain from it.
https://www.rbi.org.in/commonman/english/scripts/FAQs.aspx?Id=357
Q5...
Click to expand...
  • Wow

You first need to become resident outside India to even be considered by any bank that will be in business for a bit longer. Then, you can open the accounts and hope that they accept you. You may have better chances with a bank in the country of your residency then elsewhere.
 
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#49
JustAnotherNomad said:
I would try reaching out to UAE-based traders.
Click to expand...

Most people use personal accounts with Proof of Address somewhere else and me + 3 others I know have large enough balances that we use 'classic' offshore corps to have them separated from us.

2 Seychelles, 1 Belize, 1 Cayman.

I know around 15 people full time traders counting myself.
 
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#50
RAGAV said:
I assume reporting me under CRS is technically not a concern as I would be paying 9% corporate tax in UAE. Will license/regulatory risk increase if I trade in offshore entity due to CRS?
Click to expand...

I doubt anyone pays CIT on trading activity in Dubai. I mean, they'll probably be happy to take your money, but I don't think it's necessary.
 
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#51
TheCryptoAnt said:
Most people use personal accounts with Proof of Address somewhere else and me + 3 others I know have large enough balances that we use 'classic' offshore corps to have them separated from us.

2 Seychelles, 1 Belize, 1 Cayman.

I know around 15 people full time traders counting myself.
Click to expand...

For full time traders trading from UAE in their own personal accounts with personal funds, (stocks, equity derivatives, futures, options), do you think a license is required for this? Do any of those traders that you know have an explicit license for this?

With your offshore corporation, what is the total tax percentage on your profits? Do UAE authorities know the type of activity carried out by offshore corp or do they just know that you own an entity?
 
#52
daniels27 said:
@PhantomOf ThePits had a good list earlier:


But please read my post here
D

Post in thread 'Need virtual personal IBAN for non-EU citizens'

No serious bank will ever accept you. You will find some small bank maybe that does not know that you are trying to circumvent rules and give you an account. Few weeks later when the CRS report arrived in India, we will have you back here claiming that India seized your money but you did not do nothing.

India has strict rules on Indians opening accounts elsewhere and elsewhos opening accounts in India. My personal advice: unless you are eligible under your countries rules to open such account, abstain from it.
https://www.rbi.org.in/commonman/english/scripts/FAQs.aspx?Id=357
Q5...
Click to expand...
  • Wow

You first need to become resident outside India to even be considered by any bank that will be in business for a bit longer. Then, you can open the accounts and hope that they accept you. You may have better chances with a bank in the country of your residency then elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your post.

Out of the list, IBKR is a broker and not a bank. Sygnum and Aminagroup seems to accept only Swiss residents to open an account. Could not open the swissquote website. Let me try the others.

I will become a non-resident of India (NRI) once I stay outside India for more than 182 days a year. At that time, it is legal and allowed to open a bank in a foreign country. Yes, assuming that I migrate to UAE and reside there, the local banks would allow me to open a bank account there. I, however wish to maintain my funds in a bank outside UAE for safety and access concerns. Hence, I asked people in the forum if I can pass KYC checks of foreign banks (non-UAE, non-Indian) while residing full time in UAE. I would then be able to transfer funds from it to/from IBKR.
 
#53
RAGAV said:
Thanks for your post.

Out of the list, IBKR is a broker and not a bank. Sygnum and Aminagroup seems to accept only Swiss residents to open an account. Could not open the swissquote website. Let me try the others.

I will become a non-resident of India (NRI) once I stay outside India for more than 182 days a year. At that time, it is legal and allowed to open a bank in a foreign country. Yes, assuming that I migrate to UAE and reside there, the local banks would allow me to open a bank account there. I, however wish to maintain my funds in a bank outside UAE for safety and access concerns. Hence, I asked people in the forum if I can pass KYC checks of foreign banks (non-UAE, non-Indian) while residing full time in UAE. I would then be able to transfer funds from it to/from IBKR.
Click to expand...
Should be possible. Maybe, they changed it
P

Thread 'Do Seba (now Amina) and FRICK banks onboard UAE residents?'

I'm EU citizen and UAE resident, so was wondering if being UAE resident would make it easier to onboard any of those 2 banks? And if they work with UAE at all actually.
Seba should be since they opened an office in Abu Dhabi right?
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In any case, I would recommend Swissquote. They probably blocked India. Be prepared to be rejected unless you are no longer a resident in India, they must follow the rules.
 
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#54
JustAnotherNomad said:
I honestly wouldn't worry too much about this at this point.
I would try reaching out to UAE-based traders. I'm sure there are groups on Meetup, Facebook etc.
See what they do.

Of course you can also set up a BVI company or something like that and use that to trade, but I would guess that they would still report you under CRS as the UBO. So not sure how much of a difference that would really make.
Click to expand...
I will check with other UAE based traders.

As you mentioned in another post "how will they even find out", my broker (Ex. IKBR) might report my yearly profits or total balance to my country of residence (Ex. UAE) as part of CRS. Then, it is anyone's guess what they might do with that information.
 
#55
RAGAV said:
For full time traders trading from UAE in their own personal accounts with personal funds, (stocks, equity derivatives, futures, options), do you think a license is required for this?
Click to expand...

i have no idea

RAGAV said:
Do any of those traders that you know have an explicit license for this?
Click to expand...

Nobody cares honestly, most of us are out of UAE most of the time anyway so enforcement is quite difficult.

RAGAV said:
With your offshore corporation, what is the total tax percentage on your profits?
Click to expand...

I dont understand the question, can you rephrase it please

RAGAV said:
Do UAE authorities know the type of activity carried out by offshore corp or do they just know that you own an entity?
Click to expand...

No to both, nobody knows nothing besides me.
 
#56
TheCryptoAnt said:
Most people use personal accounts with Proof of Address somewhere else and me + 3 others I know have large enough balances that we use 'classic' offshore corps to have them separated from us.

2 Seychelles, 1 Belize, 1 Cayman.

I know around 15 people full time traders counting myself.
Click to expand...
where do you bank with these entities ? It's difficult to find banking when searching for it.
 
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#58
RAGAV said:
Thanks for your post.

Out of the list, IBKR is a broker and not a bank. Sygnum and Aminagroup seems to accept only Swiss residents to open an account. Could not open the swissquote website. Let me try the others.

I will become a non-resident of India (NRI) once I stay outside India for more than 182 days a year. At that time, it is legal and allowed to open a bank in a foreign country. Yes, assuming that I migrate to UAE and reside there, the local banks would allow me to open a bank account there. I, however wish to maintain my funds in a bank outside UAE for safety and access concerns. Hence, I asked people in the forum if I can pass KYC checks of foreign banks (non-UAE, non-Indian) while residing full time in UAE. I would then be able to transfer funds from it to/from IBKR.
Click to expand...
All of them work with UAE residency.
 
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#59
SoNewToAllShit said:
where do you bank with these entities ? It's difficult to find banking when searching for it.
Click to expand...

We don't need banking, we pay ourselves in stablecoins to (I think all of us) Kraken and then withdraw to personal accounts from there.

This is not only us but I know a far from 0 amount of people doing business (marketing, affiliates, etc) exclusively in stables these days to avoid compliance attacks.
 
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#60
JackAlabama said:
No they accept a few other places too. Notably UAE residence is accepted and widely used.
Click to expand...

PhantomOf ThePits said:
All of them work with UAE residency.
Click to expand...

Yes, both of you are right. I am just reporting what I observed from India. The two Swiss banks did not reject other nationalities but displayed a message that they are Swiss regulated.

Copying the text from sygnum.
"
If you are not located in Switzerland, please read below.

This website and the information contained herein are addressed solely to persons residing or domiciled in Switzerland.

Sygnum is a regulated bank supervised by the Swiss Market Financial Authority (FINMA). The products and services on this website are authorised in Switzerland. Sygnum cannot promote its products and services in other countries where it is not authorised by the supervisory authority of that country to do so.
"
 
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